Advert said garage and driveway... Searches say different

Lyd00

I can't believe this doesn't happen more often. Or does it? Surely a lot of people are out of pocket over things vendors have said/claimed to be theirs that turn out to be wrong. Or do most people order a copy of the deeds prior to making an offer? How is it OK for it to be as simple as "oops, we thought it belonged to us" and someone lose close to £2k for it. Crying inside over how easily this could have been avoided. I've learnt an expensive lesson. 

Ath_Wat

Lyd00 said:

I can't believe this doesn't happen more often. Or does it? Surely a lot of people are out of pocket over things vendors have said/claimed to be theirs that turn out to be wrong. Or do most people order a copy of the deeds prior to making an offer? How is it OK for it to be as simple as "oops, we thought it belonged to us" and someone lose close to £2k for it. Crying inside over how easily this could have been avoided. I've learnt an expensive lesson. 

It happens all the time, for a multitude of reasons that come out through the sale process.

Your vendors have probably lied, which makes it worse for you.  More of the time it's because of things that just weren't mentioned or of which they were genuinely ignorant.

Tiglet2

Lyd00 said:

I can't believe this doesn't happen more often. Or does it? Surely a lot of people are out of pocket over things vendors have said/claimed to be theirs that turn out to be wrong. Or do most people order a copy of the deeds prior to making an offer? How is it OK for it to be as simple as "oops, we thought it belonged to us" and someone lose close to £2k for it. Crying inside over how easily this could have been avoided. I've learnt an expensive lesson. 

It does happen fairly regularly.  The EA and vendor are not legal experts, so you can't rely on their advice. 

You instruct a solicitor to peruse the legal paperwork and raise enquiries on anything that needs clarifying.  The solicitor, however, does not visit the property so that's why they send you a copy of the title plan and ask you to confirm whether the title plan matches what you see on the ground/when you view.  

I believe it is this lack of reliable information provided by the vendor and EA at the start, that leads to anger and irritation from potential buyers and many aborted transactions.  If you read the threads about making the English conveyancing better, the delays and re-negotiation over purchase price are usually down to a lack of material information provided at the start of the transaction, in other words the potential purchaser has already spent a sizeable sum before finding out the true picture of what they are buying. 

Vendors can be clueless and EAs don't consider it their responsibility to look at legal paperwork.  The Code of Conduct for Estate Agents clearly says they should obtain title information, but EAs rarely do.  

I am sorry that you have spent a lot of money so far, but it is better that you find out about this now rather than after you have completed.  It is a small price to pay in the scheme of things.  

You have to consider that if the purchase price of this property is lower than the equivalent property with a driveway/garden/garage then it still represents good value.

Ath_Wat

Tiglet2 said:

Lyd00 said:

I can't believe this doesn't happen more often. Or does it? Surely a lot of people are out of pocket over things vendors have said/claimed to be theirs that turn out to be wrong. Or do most people order a copy of the deeds prior to making an offer? How is it OK for it to be as simple as "oops, we thought it belonged to us" and someone lose close to £2k for it. Crying inside over how easily this could have been avoided. I've learnt an expensive lesson. 

You have to consider that if the purchase price of this property is lower than the equivalent property with a driveway/garden/garage then it still represents good value.

At the end of the day, this is all that really matters (as long as its enough lower, of course).

The natural assumption would be that it is not, if all parties thought it had the "driveway", but of course the OP is the only person here who can make a judgement on that unless they tell us the agreed  price and the area.

ciderboy2009

Lyd00 said:

I can't believe this doesn't happen more often. Or does it? Surely a lot of people are out of pocket over things vendors have said/claimed to be theirs that turn out to be wrong. Or do most people order a copy of the deeds prior to making an offer? How is it OK for it to be as simple as "oops, we thought it belonged to us" and someone lose close to £2k for it. Crying inside over how easily this could have been avoided. I've learnt an expensive lesson. 

At the end of the day though, this is precisely the reason why you pay out a lot of money to professionals before you commit to buying a property by exchanging contracts.

Lyd00

Ath_Wat said:

Bendy_House said:

Lyd00 said:

Ps yes I still have the sales brochure. And when I said that its now worth less because of not having something they thought it had they just sighed and said they'd speak to the vendor who then came back and said they can't afford to go any lower. The way I'm being spoken to and treated is like I'm being a nuisance and "why do I care". I'm a ftb, single, with no one for advice but you guys so I do feel like am I wrong for stressing over this? I've tried to call the ombudsman for a bit of guidance but they're closed for bank holiday.

I've also booked to see another property next week. I'll be purchasing the deeds beforehand! It's considerably smaller (but with room for an extension), less character (but also needs less work) and is on the street I live on now so at least I know the neighbours are sound etc! 

Your reaction to this is perfectly reasonable and totally understandable. The EA's response is also understandable, but it's not for good reasons; they not only want to sell this property, but they also now know there will be an ongoing issue with it and future purchasers. They are now (I believe) legally obliged to declare this issue, or at least not claim it to be as shown. They cannot escape this knowledge, they can no longer claim 'ignorance'. If another vendor is let loose on this house using the uncorrected details in the existing particulars, then the EA can be reported to the Ombudsman, and will almost certainly be penalised.

Keep on as you are. The next time you have a conversion with your bullying EA, be utterly calm and clear-voiced (as I'm sure you already are); turn it around to asking questions, such as "Are you telling me that if YOU were most of the way into buying a house only to find you may not even have access to your garage, that wouldn't bother you?". "If YOU were told very clearly by an EA that the driveway next to the house was the vendor's, but then found out it wasn't, how would you feel about that EA?" Repeat, until the cringing become intolerable...

And, "I'd be stupid to continue with this purchase until it is absolutely determined whether one of its most significant assets - parking spaces and a garage - is actually owned by or even accessible by the new owner. And you do know that, if it isn't, not only is the house worth a fair bit less, but that you WILL have to declare this to all future potential buyers? Good."

I'd absolutely concur with this.

The only argument that they can give is that works is "Well, you were getting the house really cheap - if we remarket it without the "drive", we will get the price you were prepared to pay anyway."

This may even be true.  Without knowing what you are paying or anything about the area, we obviously can't comment on that.

At this point I'm just so undecided about what to do. 

Pros:
>Gets me on the property ladder 
>It's in a nice area with shops and a pub nearby and close to motorway links 

Cons:
>Needs a full cosmetic makeover (including removing artex but it's asbestos free) which could be timely and costly (price was reflective of this) a house 3 doors down sold for approx. £20k more last year in a ready to move in condition
>It's on a social housing estate and is squished in a corner with no nearby parking if I ever have problems parking at the side 
>Very overlooked by the bungalows and houses at the back 
>Sellability - would it be difficult to sell on? Especially in view of there being no official parking 

Asking price was £159,995 but current accepted offer is £154,995 based on RICs 3 survey saying new roof needed and a few other things. 

My revised offer based on no driveway was then £150,000. Initially the vendor said they're not dropping any further than £154,995 but I've now been told that they're so upset by all of this and they want the sale that they are "open" to renegotiation. I think they'll meet half way basically. But I'm not sure what a good price is anymore as nothing similar has sold in the area recently with no driveway. 

This is the link to the advert... 

 https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/60506945?utm_source=v1:5bWFDybfWx7C7AGpeagt7mP3PgcqjuqJ&utm_medium=api

user1977

Is the on-street parking that bad? Looks like plenty of space the last time Google went past:

https://goo.gl/maps/ciJTwYyPnjfFcC9J6

jimbog

Those are BIG front door steps! Will put off young families and more elderly people downsizing.

You can find a much better house than this

Section62

Lyd00 said:

>It's on a social housing estate and is squished in a corner with no nearby parking if I ever have problems parking at the side 

If you have a vehicular right of way over the land from the public highway to the garage then you have the alternative of parking at the rear (I think Doozergirl said this earlier in the thread).  If your solicitor can give you assurance that this right of way cannot be extinguished then you should always have that option to fall back on.

If nobody else has RoW over the area you want to park on (only part of the blue shaded area) then the council may be willing to give you permission to park there, and possibly may agree to sell that area to you if you wanted to buy it.

Strictly speaking, I don't think the EA's description of the arrangement in the property details is so incorrect as to be a problem for them.  They don't describe it as a "private driveway".  It is an area of land which could be driven across to gain access to the garage at the rear - aka a 'driveway'.  It is relatively narrow, but so to are driveways of a lot of properties of a similar age, and it wouldn't be difficult to find new-build properties with driveways of similar width.

If you can deal with the other issues I personally wouldn't see the driveway as a showstopper.  You don't need 'official' parking as you have an area of private parking to the rear.  If the presumed lack of PP for the garage is a concern then there is no reason why you couldn't demolish the garage and park on the resulting hardstanding - although I doubt there is likely to be a PP issue with the garage in any event (there's no indication it was built recently).

Section62

user1977 said:

Is the on-street parking that bad? Looks like plenty of space the last time Google went past:

https://goo.gl/maps/ciJTwYyPnjfFcC9J6

The street looks too narrow for carriageway parking both sides, but it appears the council have lowered the kerbs and footways to provide a quasi-shared-space parking arrangement.  There are no signs permitting or exempting footway parking though, so this could become an issue if changes in the law to ban footway parking go through.