Advert said garage and driveway... Searches say different

koalakoala

Is it worth £1300 to end up with a house with no parking and no accessible garage? Have you called the EA ombudsman?

Ath_Wat

Lyd00 said:

prowla said:

So, to clarify: the property is less than what was described and the question is whether it's therefore worth less?

Yeah, I went back and offered less which was rejected. So now I've to decide whether to go ahead or walk away and lose about £1,300 

It largely depends on whether you feel the house was cheap anyway.  The lack of parking will certainly affect the value by a significant amount.  If you were paying way under the value anyway of course, it may still be worth it.

What are the estate agent saying to you?  That it's worth just as much even if it's not what they thought?  They valued the house believing it had a larger plot with useful off-road parking, are they saying that makes no difference to their valuation?

If you asked for 10 apples they can't just give you nine and say "Oh, it's just the same."  What's their argument?

Bendy_House

Lyd00 said:

Bendy_House said:

Bendy_House said:

The mention in the deeds of this RoW doesn't make it clear whether it's pedestrian or also vehicular. Could your solicitor confirm whether this lack of clarification restricts it to pedestrian only?

- I spoke to her this morning and she's going to find out. I sent her a photo and she agrees that it looks like a footpath rather than vehicular access. 

Even IF it includes 'vehicular', then that would - as far as the deeds are concerned - prohibit you from parking down alongside your house, as this would clearly restrict access to any other folk who may also have this RoW mentioned on their deeds (a further £3 for each copy of neighbouring deeds might clarify this).

- I agree. I did say to my solicitor that I'd be happy to pay to see the deeds for number 11 (one of the bungalows, but she told me not to?) not sure why and maybe I will anyway.

So, I think the most important detail is to find out whether vehicles can also access that RoW? If it does, great. If it doesn't, then you will likely be living with a situation where any complainant could scupper even your access to your garage...

- this is my biggest worry. Hopefully the enquiries my solicitor makes will be done quickly. But then again if the seller won't drop the price to reflect that it doesn't have a driveway I need to decide if I even still want it.  

Of course it looks like a bleedin' footpath - what's down there IS a footpath. That doesn't mean it's restricted to being a footpath - only the deeds will determine that. I certainly hope "she's going to find out.."; she needs to do her bleedin' work.

Oh, she's trying to put you off seeing a neighbouring property's deeds? What the? I cannot think of any good reason why she'd do this.

What is the 'attitude' of your solicitor? Does she understand the significance of this issue, its seriousness? Did she mention/bring to your attention, that side of the house, the path, the access, the garage in any meaningful manner?

Did the EA say things like "And there is a (private) driveway down the side to their garage..." or was it "We understand from the vendor that they have access down the side to their garage..."?

Bendy_House

And have you downloaded/kept/stored a copy of the sales particulars?

Ath_Wat

Bendy_House said:

Lyd00 said:

Bendy_House said:

Bendy_House said:

The mention in the deeds of this RoW doesn't make it clear whether it's pedestrian or also vehicular. Could your solicitor confirm whether this lack of clarification restricts it to pedestrian only?

- I spoke to her this morning and she's going to find out. I sent her a photo and she agrees that it looks like a footpath rather than vehicular access. 

Even IF it includes 'vehicular', then that would - as far as the deeds are concerned - prohibit you from parking down alongside your house, as this would clearly restrict access to any other folk who may also have this RoW mentioned on their deeds (a further £3 for each copy of neighbouring deeds might clarify this).

- I agree. I did say to my solicitor that I'd be happy to pay to see the deeds for number 11 (one of the bungalows, but she told me not to?) not sure why and maybe I will anyway.

So, I think the most important detail is to find out whether vehicles can also access that RoW? If it does, great. If it doesn't, then you will likely be living with a situation where any complainant could scupper even your access to your garage...

- this is my biggest worry. Hopefully the enquiries my solicitor makes will be done quickly. But then again if the seller won't drop the price to reflect that it doesn't have a driveway I need to decide if I even still want it.  

Did the EA say things like "And there is a (private) driveway down the side to their garage..." or was it "We understand from the vendor that they have access down the side to their garage..."?

I think it is established that the EA told them the "driveway" belonged to the house, because the vendor themselves claimed that the land belonged to the house and professed ignorance when told that it didn't.  

I really don't think the EA can be held responsible for that because without checking title plans for every house they sell, they have to take vendors word for the size of the external plot.  There's nothing obvious from looking it to suggest it is not owned by the house.

Lyd00

Bendy_House said:

 

Of course it looks like a bleedin' footpath - what's down there IS a footpath. That doesn't mean it's restricted to being a footpath - only the deeds will determine that. I certainly hope "she's going to find out.."; she needs to do her bleedin' work.

Oh, she's trying to put you off seeing a neighbouring property's deeds? What the? I cannot think of any good reason why she'd do this.

- I too thought it was strange but she was very annoyed about it and she was looking at a photo I'd emailed her of it where it also clearly shows the garden fence not being in the correct place so I think she was "on one" saying leave this to me don't do anything. 

What is the 'attitude' of your solicitor? Does she understand the significance of this issue, its seriousness? Did she mention/bring to your attention, that side of the house, the path, the access, the garage in any meaningful manner?

- yes she did and said that she'll ask their solicitor to approach council about acquiring it, and/or finding out exactly what, if any, the restrictions are and is raising the garden fence issue also. The EA called me yesterday afternoon near close of play to ask me for my decision and I said well actually there's another issue with the garden fence so it's tbc. They were threatening to put it back on the market before bank holiday but I think this has bought some more time? 

Did the EA say things like "And there is a (private) driveway down the side to their garage..." or was it "We understand from the vendor that they have access down the side to their garage..."?

- "This one has a driveway and garage which the other ones don't" is what they've said over the phone twice. Until it transpires it didn't and they had the cheek to say to me "you should have known it wasn't a driveway". On the phone each time of course. 

. 

Ps yes I still have the sales brochure. And when I said that its now worth less because of not having something they thought it had they just sighed and said they'd speak to the vendor who then came back and said they can't afford to go any lower. The way I'm being spoken to and treated is like I'm being a nuisance and "why do I care". I'm a ftb, single, with no one for advice but you guys so I do feel like am I wrong for stressing over this? I've tried to call the ombudsman for a bit of guidance but they're closed for bank holiday.

I've also booked to see another property next week. I'll be purchasing the deeds beforehand! It's considerably smaller (but with room for an extension), less character (but also needs less work) and is on the street I live on now so at least I know the neighbours are sound etc! 

Bendy_House

Lyd00 said:

Ps yes I still have the sales brochure. And when I said that its now worth less because of not having something they thought it had they just sighed and said they'd speak to the vendor who then came back and said they can't afford to go any lower. The way I'm being spoken to and treated is like I'm being a nuisance and "why do I care". I'm a ftb, single, with no one for advice but you guys so I do feel like am I wrong for stressing over this? I've tried to call the ombudsman for a bit of guidance but they're closed for bank holiday.

I've also booked to see another property next week. I'll be purchasing the deeds beforehand! It's considerably smaller (but with room for an extension), less character (but also needs less work) and is on the street I live on now so at least I know the neighbours are sound etc! 

Your reaction to this is perfectly reasonable and totally understandable. The EA's response is also understandable, but it's not for good reasons; they not only want to sell this property, but they also now know there will be an ongoing issue with it and future purchasers. They are now (I believe) legally obliged to declare this issue, or at least not claim it to be as shown. They cannot escape this knowledge, they can no longer claim 'ignorance'. If another vendor is let loose on this house using the uncorrected details in the existing particulars, then the EA can be reported to the Ombudsman, and will almost certainly be penalised.

Keep on as you are. The next time you have a conversion with your bullying EA, be utterly calm and clear-voiced (as I'm sure you already are); turn it around to asking questions, such as "Are you telling me that if YOU were most of the way into buying a house only to find you may not even have access to your garage, that wouldn't bother you?". "If YOU were told very clearly by an EA that the driveway next to the house was the vendor's, but then found out it wasn't, how would you feel about that EA?" Repeat, until the cringing become intolerable...

And, "I'd be stupid to continue with this purchase until it is absolutely determined whether one of its most significant assets - parking spaces and a garage - is actually owned by or even accessible by the new owner. And you do know that, if it isn't, not only is the house worth a fair bit less, but that you WILL have to declare this to all future potential buyers? Good."

eddddy

Lyd00 said:

...they just sighed and said they'd speak to the vendor who then came back and said they can't afford to go any lower. 

Bear in mind the the EA is at fault here - and they're not going to admit that to the vendor.

The EA won't be saying to the vendor...

"I'm really sorry, we made a silly mistake by saying there were parking spaces and a garage, when we should have known better. As a result of our mistake, the buyer is unhappy and wants to reduce their offer, or might walk away."

Instead, the EA will be looking for somebody to else to blame for the problem - and you're the obvious choice.



Do you still want to buy the property, if the price is reduced?

The EA will still want the sale to go ahead - even at your reduced offer price - so that they get their commission.

In these kind of circumstances, I would tend to just say "I'm reducing my offer to £x. I've explained the reasons - I've nothing further to say. Let me know if and when the seller agrees." And move on.

Sometimes that has worked for me, and sometimes it hasn't.

Ath_Wat

eddddy said:

Lyd00 said:

...they just sighed and said they'd speak to the vendor who then came back and said they can't afford to go any lower. 

Bear in mind the the EA is at fault here - and they're not going to admit that to the vendor.

The EA won't be saying to the vendor...

"I'm really sorry, we made a silly mistake by saying there were parking spaces and a garage, when we should have known better. As a result of our mistake, the buyer is unhappy and wants to reduce their offer, or might walk away."

Instead, the EA will be looking for somebody to else to blame for the problem - and you're the obvious choice.

What do you suggest the estate agent should have done when the vendor told them they owned that land?  Checked the deeds?  No estate agent does that.

The vendor is at fault, they should have known better, not the EA.

Ath_Wat

Bendy_House said:

Lyd00 said:

Ps yes I still have the sales brochure. And when I said that its now worth less because of not having something they thought it had they just sighed and said they'd speak to the vendor who then came back and said they can't afford to go any lower. The way I'm being spoken to and treated is like I'm being a nuisance and "why do I care". I'm a ftb, single, with no one for advice but you guys so I do feel like am I wrong for stressing over this? I've tried to call the ombudsman for a bit of guidance but they're closed for bank holiday.

I've also booked to see another property next week. I'll be purchasing the deeds beforehand! It's considerably smaller (but with room for an extension), less character (but also needs less work) and is on the street I live on now so at least I know the neighbours are sound etc! 

Your reaction to this is perfectly reasonable and totally understandable. The EA's response is also understandable, but it's not for good reasons; they not only want to sell this property, but they also now know there will be an ongoing issue with it and future purchasers. They are now (I believe) legally obliged to declare this issue, or at least not claim it to be as shown. They cannot escape this knowledge, they can no longer claim 'ignorance'. If another vendor is let loose on this house using the uncorrected details in the existing particulars, then the EA can be reported to the Ombudsman, and will almost certainly be penalised.

Keep on as you are. The next time you have a conversion with your bullying EA, be utterly calm and clear-voiced (as I'm sure you already are); turn it around to asking questions, such as "Are you telling me that if YOU were most of the way into buying a house only to find you may not even have access to your garage, that wouldn't bother you?". "If YOU were told very clearly by an EA that the driveway next to the house was the vendor's, but then found out it wasn't, how would you feel about that EA?" Repeat, until the cringing become intolerable...

And, "I'd be stupid to continue with this purchase until it is absolutely determined whether one of its most significant assets - parking spaces and a garage - is actually owned by or even accessible by the new owner. And you do know that, if it isn't, not only is the house worth a fair bit less, but that you WILL have to declare this to all future potential buyers? Good."

I'd absolutely concur with this.

The only argument that they can give is that works is "Well, you were getting the house really cheap - if we remarket it without the "drive", we will get the price you were prepared to pay anyway."

This may even be true.  Without knowing what you are paying or anything about the area, we obviously can't comment on that.