How to determine who owns a piece of land

LouiseH1

Hi,

I have just moved into my first owned property. It is an old house that was built in the 30s. The previous ownership of it is a little bit sketchy but it's possible that it has been in the same family for the entire time. 

It's a bit of a strange one as it's behind the houses on a residential street and is accessed via an alleyway. It is the only house here but next to it is a plot of land that is around the same size as the plot that we are on. The house was owned by an old person who moved into a residential home a couple of years ago and so very little is known about the property but it wasn't even registered with the Land Registry. The garden is completely overgrown and the plot next to us is in the exact same state. The conveyance process to determine boundaries took a long time. They had to refer to a conveyance from 1936 to determine ownership of the alleyway. We were sent a copy and it's almost impossible to read because of how faded it is and the language used. 

Today we bumped into our neighbours and they told us that the plot next to us is ours, as is the alleyway. They were very shocked when we told them that our solicitors didn't think we did own that piece of land. They even said that the previous owner had tried to get a driveway built which was rejected because the houses on the street have right of access in order to access their back gardens.

It's very hard to determine if there is a fence that goes all the way along the boundary of the two plots as it is so overgrown but there is definitely a chain-link fence dividing part of it. There are also some very clear pathways between the two plots - even though there does appear to be a partial fence in these areas.
How do we get more information on this plot and determine who owns it?
Many thanks,
Louise

housebuyer143

LouiseH1 said:

Hi,

I have just moved into my first owned property. It is an old house that was built in the 30s. The previous ownership of it is a little bit sketchy but it's possible that it has been in the same family for the entire time. 

It's a bit of a strange one as it's behind the houses on a residential street and is accessed via an alleyway. It is the only house here but next to it is a plot of land that is around the same size as the plot that we are on. The house was owned by an old person who moved into a residential home a couple of years ago and so very little is known about the property but it wasn't even registered with the Land Registry. The garden is completely overgrown and the plot next to us is in the exact same state. The conveyance process to determine boundaries took a long time. They had to refer to a conveyance from 1936 to determine ownership of the alleyway. We were sent a copy and it's almost impossible to read because of how faded it is and the language used. 

Today we bumped into our neighbours and they told us that the plot next to us is ours, as is the alleyway. They were very shocked when we told them that our solicitors didn't think we did own that piece of land. They even said that the previous owner had tried to get a driveway built which was rejected because the houses on the street have right of access in order to access their back gardens.

It's very hard to determine if there is a fence that goes all the way along the boundary of the two plots as it is so overgrown but there is definitely a chain-link fence dividing part of it. There are also some very clear pathways between the two plots - even though there does appear to be a partial fence in these areas.
How do we get more information on this plot and determine who owns it?
Many thanks,
Louise

Someone posted this yesterday.

https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search

Search the map then look on land registry for the deeds

canaldumidi

Clear the land. Put up a fence around both plots, but not between the two plots. Maintain the land as part of your garden.

Wait 12 years, then claim adverse possession.

I assume you've done a Land Registry map search, though it sounds unlikely that the plot is registered with the LR.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-1-unregistered-land-and-2-registered-land/practice-guide-5-adverse-possession-of-1-unregistered-and-2-registered-land-where-a-right-to-be-registered-was-acquired-before-13-october-2003

theoretica

Ask your conveyancer.

user1977

Going back to your solicitor would seem the most sensible first step, given they looked at the deeds (and might have missed something).

Slithery

If it isn't registered then one option is to contact your local councils asset management team to see if belongs to them.

LouiseH1

housebuyer143 said:

LouiseH1 said:

Hi,

I have just moved into my first owned property. It is an old house that was built in the 30s. The previous ownership of it is a little bit sketchy but it's possible that it has been in the same family for the entire time. 

It's a bit of a strange one as it's behind the houses on a residential street and is accessed via an alleyway. It is the only house here but next to it is a plot of land that is around the same size as the plot that we are on. The house was owned by an old person who moved into a residential home a couple of years ago and so very little is known about the property but it wasn't even registered with the Land Registry. The garden is completely overgrown and the plot next to us is in the exact same state. The conveyance process to determine boundaries took a long time. They had to refer to a conveyance from 1936 to determine ownership of the alleyway. We were sent a copy and it's almost impossible to read because of how faded it is and the language used. 

Today we bumped into our neighbours and they told us that the plot next to us is ours, as is the alleyway. They were very shocked when we told them that our solicitors didn't think we did own that piece of land. They even said that the previous owner had tried to get a driveway built which was rejected because the houses on the street have right of access in order to access their back gardens.

It's very hard to determine if there is a fence that goes all the way along the boundary of the two plots as it is so overgrown but there is definitely a chain-link fence dividing part of it. There are also some very clear pathways between the two plots - even though there does appear to be a partial fence in these areas.
How do we get more information on this plot and determine who owns it?
Many thanks,
Louise

Someone posted this yesterday.

Search the map then look on land registry for the deeds

Thank you!
This is interesting as it suggests that the alleyway does belong to us but not the land next to us. 

(I had to remove the link to be able to post)

Section62

LouiseH1 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Someone posted this yesterday.

Search the map then look on land registry for the deeds

This is interesting as it suggests that the alleyway does belong to us but not the land next to us. 

Bear in mind those maps are based on Ordnance Survey plans which can be up to a couple of metres out - the possible error level is potentially greater than the width of the alley.  Also if you are using the aerial photo to locate the position of the alleyway then bear in mind these images have a fair margin of error in them.

Essentially, in most cases a line on the maps doesn't mean that is exactly where the boundary is.

On the other hand, if the alleyway is shown as a separate parcel of land and you own that one too, then you have fairly conclusive proof of ownership.

p00hsticks

Slithery said:

If it isn't registered then one option is to contact your local councils asset management team to see if belongs to them.

You shouldn't need to actually contact anyone - have a search for 'assets register' on the local council website.  

housebuyer143

Section62 said:

LouiseH1 said:

housebuyer143 said:

Someone posted this yesterday.

Search the map then look on land registry for the deeds

This is interesting as it suggests that the alleyway does belong to us but not the land next to us. 

Bear in mind those maps are based on Ordnance Survey plans which can be up to a couple of metres out - the possible error level is potentially greater than the width of the alley.  Also if you are using the aerial photo to locate the position of the alleyway then bear in mind these images have a fair margin of error in them.

Essentially, in most cases a line on the maps doesn't mean that is exactly where the boundary is.

On the other hand, if the alleyway is shown as a separate parcel of land and you own that one too, then you have fairly conclusive proof of ownership.

As above, you should use it more of a rough guide and to see if the larger area of land you are referring to has a number against it - if it does its likely registered and you will be able to easily find the owner.

theoretica

LouiseH1 said:

housebuyer143 said:

LouiseH1 said:

Hi,

I have just moved into my first owned property. It is an old house that was built in the 30s. The previous ownership of it is a little bit sketchy but it's possible that it has been in the same family for the entire time. 

It's a bit of a strange one as it's behind the houses on a residential street and is accessed via an alleyway. It is the only house here but next to it is a plot of land that is around the same size as the plot that we are on. The house was owned by an old person who moved into a residential home a couple of years ago and so very little is known about the property but it wasn't even registered with the Land Registry. The garden is completely overgrown and the plot next to us is in the exact same state. The conveyance process to determine boundaries took a long time. They had to refer to a conveyance from 1936 to determine ownership of the alleyway. We were sent a copy and it's almost impossible to read because of how faded it is and the language used. 

Today we bumped into our neighbours and they told us that the plot next to us is ours, as is the alleyway. They were very shocked when we told them that our solicitors didn't think we did own that piece of land. They even said that the previous owner had tried to get a driveway built which was rejected because the houses on the street have right of access in order to access their back gardens.

It's very hard to determine if there is a fence that goes all the way along the boundary of the two plots as it is so overgrown but there is definitely a chain-link fence dividing part of it. There are also some very clear pathways between the two plots - even though there does appear to be a partial fence in these areas.
How do we get more information on this plot and determine who owns it?
Many thanks,
Louise

Someone posted this yesterday.

Search the map then look on land registry for the deeds

Thank you!
This is interesting as it suggests that the alleyway does belong to us but not the land next to us. 

(I had to remove the link to be able to post)

Does it show someone else owning the other land - a number against it, or that it is not registered?  If it isn't registered it could still be a mistake from when your property was registered.