Both flats registered as Freehold and Leasehold - Building insurance?

Crispytriple

My neighbour lives below me in a one bedroom flat. I have a separate entrance but live squarely above him. Both properties are listed separately on the Land Registry as being both Freehold and Leasehold? The freehold company owning the ground lease has been dissolved.  I have assumed that since the change in the law the dual freehold Leasehold situation can happen and can be rectified by dealing with the Land Registry.  My question is should we both have building insurance? If the ground floor flat does not have building insurance but my flat above does have insurance - who pays for the rebuild of the ground floor flat if something awful happens to both our properties?

Philomel

I live in a similar property with two leasehold flats and a freehold whose ownership is split between the two flats. We have joint buildings insurance. This was a condition of my lender which had to be fulfilled before we bought the property. It sounds like you don't have a shared freehold within the house, which seems unusual? 

canaldumidi

Crispytriple said:

......Both properties are listed separately on the Land Registry as being both Freehold and Leasehold?

......  My question is should we both have building insurance? If the ground floor flat does not have building insurance but my flat above does have insurance - who pays for the rebuild of the ground floor flat if something awful happens to both our properties?

Doubtful. I suspect each flat has a leasehold Title, and each flat also refers to the buildigs Freehold Title. The question here is who owns the freehold since you say "The freehold company....has been dissolved. "

As for the insurance, what do the leases say? Either

* freeholder insures and each leaseholder reimburses 1/2 the cost to the freeholder (normal)

* each leaseholder insures their own 1/2 of the building (sometimes)

* lease is silent (very very unusual)

Read the lease.

eddddy

Crispytriple said:

 Both properties are listed separately on the Land Registry as being both Freehold and Leasehold? 

Could you have been confused by the way Land Registry lists titles?

Did you see something like this:



In the example above, there are 2 leasehold titles (i.e. 2 flats) and 1 freehold title (i.e. 1 building)...

... but the freehold title is listed twice. The (1) indicates that they are both the same freehold title.

If you look at the 'See important note', it confirms this.

Crispytriple said:

The freehold company owning the ground lease has been dissolved.

How have you found out details of the company that owns the freehold, and how do you know that it has been dissolved?

So do you not get ground rent bills and service charge bills, and is nobody maintaining/repairing the building?

Crispytriple said:

My question is should we both have building insurance? If the ground floor flat does not have building insurance but my flat above does have insurance - who pays for the rebuild of the ground floor flat if something awful happens to both our properties?

The ideal solution is that you and your neighbour get together and arrange a 'block of flats' insurance policy for the whole building.

Otherwise there might need to be 3 separate buildings insurance policies - 1 for your flat, 1 for the downstairs flat, and one for the common parts.


If you opt for the 3 separate insurance policies, you might also want another type of insurance policy called a "Contingent Buildings insurance indemnity policy".

The "Contingent Buildings insurance indemnity policy" would cover you, if your downstairs neighbour fails to insure their flat properly.

But to be honest, I'm not sure how you'd buy that indemnity policy yourself - normally it's arranged by your solicitor when you buy a property.

Crispytriple

Thank you for some great answers it really helps.
The land registry definitely states that both flats are both Freehold and Leasehold but there is not an "Important Note" element as you describe. Companies House state that the Company was dissolved in 2017 but does not give any further information.  It looks like I have to A, get the Land Registry reports for both properties, B, persuade my neighbour that we both need cover and C, get a specialist Building Insurance company to get the appropriate cover. Again thanks for your comments and inputs. 

Crispytriple

I forgot to add - No ground rent is being paid and no services to the flats exists.

TripleH

Right, how was the company dissolved?

If it was dissolved because no-one completed the right paperwork and the company was struck off then I believe the Crown will now 'own' the freehold.

You might be able to buy back the freehold yourself but I have no idea the procedure involved.

Did you buy your flat before the company was dissolved? It sounds like you are no longer a freeholder but a leaseholder.

canaldumidi

Crispytriple said:

Thank you for some great answers it really helps.
The land registry definitely states that both flats are both Freehold and Leasehold but there is not an "Important Note" element as you describe. Companies House state that the Company was dissolved in 2017 but does not give any further information.  It looks like I have to A, get the Land Registry reports for both properties, B, persuade my neighbour that we both need cover and C, get a specialist Building Insurance company to get the appropriate cover. Again thanks for your comments and inputs. 

If you buy the freehold titles for both flats (£3 each) you can compare the title numbers and see if they are the same.

Duckduckgo is your friend:

https://www.bishopandsewell.co.uk/2020/03/06/buying-the-freehold-to-a-building-where-the-freehold-company-has-been-dissolved/

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/a-025-2922?contextData=(sc.Default)&transitionType=Default&firstPage=true

eddddy

Crispytriple said:

Thank you for some great answers it really helps.
The land registry definitely states that both flats are both Freehold and Leasehold but there is not an "Important Note" element as you describe. Companies House state that the Company was dissolved in 2017 but does not give any further information.  It looks like I have to A, get the Land Registry reports for both properties, B, persuade my neighbour that we both need cover and C, get a specialist Building Insurance company to get the appropriate cover. Again thanks for your comments and inputs. 

There must be a misunderstanding somewhere - what you say really doesn't really make sense.

Perhaps one of my questions wasn't clear. You say that a company owns the freehold. How did you find that out? (Which document? What is the actual wording in the document where it mentions the company name?)

Do you, by any chance, have a 'Tyneside Lease' or 'Criss-Cross Lease'? That could partly explain what you say.

How old is the lease? Some really old leases (maybe 100+ years old) can have a strange set-up.



As you say, if you haven't already, maybe download both freehold title registers (for £3 each) to see if they are 2 different freehold titles, and who currently owns the freehold title(s).



You should read your lease (and your neighbour's lease) to see who is responsible for insuring what.

What did your solicitor say about insurance when you bought the property? Your solicitor would have checked the insurance situation.

diamond_dave

I am in exactly the same situation with my fil being the freeholder and living in the top flat whilst I own the gf one renting it out. Trying to get insurance for this block is difficult(?) as many companies insure both flats separately. Surely, if the room blows off it is not the upstairs flat that makes the claim but the freeholder of the block. At present, the insured is listed as two properties.Really strange.How do large block of flats sort out the problem? Thanks.

eddddy

diamond_dave said:

I am in exactly the same situation with my fil being the freeholder and living in the top flat whilst I own the gf one renting it out. Trying to get insurance for this block is difficult(?) as many companies insure both flats separately. Surely, if the room blows off it is not the upstairs flat that makes the claim but the freeholder of the block. At present, the insured is listed as two properties.Really strange.How do large block of flats sort out the problem? Thanks.

Even though there are only 2 flats in your building, you would want 'Block of Flats Insurance'.

If you google block of flats insurance, you should find plenty of brokers who offer this. (It's not something you can buy on comparison sites etc)