ASHP's and how to use them economically?

QrizB

oldagetraveller1 said:

" paid in full by the council. "

Not really. That will be tax payers footing the cost.

Most probably paid by the energy companies, via the ECO LAD scheme, which is funded by a surcharge on energy bills.

Still worth taking if it's offered.

akwexavante said:

I'm a taxpayer too, 40yrs+!  And as such at the mo taxes are hitting hard in all sorts of ways along with vast increases in bills in general.  It's not often you get the opportunity to access something like this, and when it happens, grab what you can.

Exactly this.

akwexavante

Thank you to all those that have contributed here.

I have now been told (Verbally, contracts on the way), what the installer is proposing to do / install.

The installer is proposing to replace all existing radiators and two extra complete with new TRV's.

A STD Daikin control panel and a Honeywell room stat / programmer.

A Daikin Monobloc 5KW unit: EDLQ05CAV3 and a tank: EKHWSU150D3V3.

Does anybody have any experience with these two units at all?

Having done some googling, i can find very little info about the unit and no customer / end user reviews anywhere!

It would seem that i would have very little scope / control of the system, and no more than a traditional heating system.

I asked what the radiators, the Honeywell and the Daikin control unit would be, and the caller couldn't answer my question, he didn't know.

He told me that contracts will be in the post within the next 10 days detailing their proposal, but couldn't say if the proposal would offer any additional details about the various parts being proposed.

Swipe

Daikin is a reputable manufacturer. I had two Daikin air to air heatpump units at my previous house.

CJ1082

Did you go ahead with the installation? If so, are you pleased with the result and how has it affected your electricity bill?

ProDave

A few basics (from a happy ASHP user)

The main difference between an ASHP and a gas boiler, is the ASHP only works eficciently at lower temperature water than a boiler.  Generally not much hotter than 50 degrees C.  That is why the radiators are being replaced for larger ones that will give enough heat output running at the lower temperature.  You will probably have a large hot water tank as that too will probably be set to 50 degrees.  That is plenty hot enough but will be diluted in use with less cold water than a normal tank, hence it needs to be large.

Make sure the installer shows you how to set the hot water temperature and the temperature of the water in the radiators, in case you need to adjust them.

akwexavante

CJ1082 said:

Did you go ahead with the installation? If so, are you pleased with the result and how has it affected your electricity bill?

Sorry for the delay replying.

The simplistic answer is i did go ahead with the installation.  Obviously, my electricity bill has gone up, but i'm no longer using propane.  I'm on a low fixed tariff, 0.1716p Kwh.  The unit has used 179Kw @ 0.1716p Kwh + VAT over 92 days.

That's (If i've got my maths right) £32.25 over the three months, or an average of 35p per day thus far.  That's an estimated £128 per year just for the hot water.  That's one person, shower every day, and hot water twice a week for shaves and hot water every 2nd day to wash pots n pans at the kitchen sink.

The heating hasn't been used as yet!!!!!!

I won't really know how economical it is until i've had it for a whole year.

After hard negotiations and a battle afterwards, i'm happy thus far with what i've ended up with, but i'll need to wait a year to find out how economical it is.

Warmer Energy Solutions (WES) performed the installation, but i'm convinced they contracted out the job to a Heating Engineer (Manchester) and an Electrician (Liverpool).  Installation was in Scarborough.

Pre-Installation:  I had to fight hard to get WES to commit into writing what exactly they were fitting and what they were and were not going to do, and after many phone calls and emails the installation nearly fell through.

I wanted a written guarantee that there would be no horizontal Hep2 or copper pipework above the floor.  I wanted to see only vertical copper pipes from floor to radiators.  I wanted them to commit into writing that all radiators would be central about windows and walls.

All too easy for an installer to fit one end of a radiator to an existing pipe then extend the pipework at the opposite end with a length of horizontal Hep2 and the radiator ends up nowhere near central to a window and an eyesore.

I wanted assurance that cables and pipework in and out would be plumb vertical / horizontal with oooodles of clips etc with no crossing over.

I wanted assurance that all electrical cables would be indoors and where possible out of sight (Underfloor).

I said i was happy to lift floors etc myself to make things easier and accessible, WES continued to say this was not necessary.

It was obvious to me that the installation was going to be quick, simple and an eyesore when completed.  In the end, at the 11th and a half hour, i did get a written commitment from them to install sympathetically where possible!  They assured me that i did not need to take up any floors in advance, but i did it anyway.

On the day:The installers were not very happy about what i was expecting of them and after nearly an hour's worth of phone calls and stomping up and down the driveway, work began with an atmosphere of unhappiness.  They were expecting to do the whole job in one day, it took them nearly two days.  They did work hard and without breaks, on the first day they arrived at 9am, started 10'ish stopped at 9pm.  On day two, they asked to start at 6am!!!! and they left at 3pm.

After They Left: The system wasn't working properly, no hot water and the heating wasn't working either (a misconfigured three-way valve) and i had other issues too to resolve.  The drain valve they used to drain the old system was leaking, and the tank was leaking too, causing the consumer unit to trip out all the electrics as water was getting into the lighting circuitry.

It was the special bank holiday weekend and i had to wait until Tuesday before "some things were sorted" but not everything.

After three weeks of phone calls and many an email it was clear i was going to have to put things right myself then i had an idea........

I phoned the council to express my dissatisfaction, and we discussed the remaining issues i had.  I was asked to write an email to the lady complete with photos as required, and i asked that the payment for the works to be withheld until the job was put right.

That same day, WES phoned me and asked that the installers returned the following morning to rectify any issues remaining.  Within 20 minutes, the installer phoned to ask if they could start at 6am.

They worked hard and everything i asked of them was done without hassle or questions, they left at 11am.

Mstty

So I know you can save money on your hot water in summer and winter.

For one person you can take this down to the bare minimum.

Firstly the ASHP works more efficiently when the temperature outside is hot so in summer pick the hottest part of the day for where your outside unit sits and heat the water then (not during the night when it is colder)

I would suggest you could try this setup

Monday (hottest time of the day 30-60 minute hot water burn) probably 1.6 kWh or set to 45oC

Wednesday same as above 1.6kWh

Friday Legionella burn again at the same hot time 3-4kwh

Roughly 7kwh a week so that could save you 80kWh which when you decent fix runs out is key

Most importantly check the backup electric heater on the system is not set to come in everytime the ASHP fires up, for hot water you just want the outside unit doing all the work.

You could even get this down to a 30min burn Monday and Wednesday but see how you go.

Mstty

Next thing on the list is have they setup your ASHP to use a (weather) compensation curve? If not have a read of the manual and get that set for whenever you intend to put you heating on this winter.

We are aiming for October this year unless a cold snap appears.

akwexavante

Just had a look at the operation manual for the control unit.

It suggests that i can achieve the things that have been suggested, but then doesn't describe how to actually do it!!

I need to sit down in front of the control unit and explore its menus and work out how to do this.

The unit is on an East facing wall and probably at it's warmest, say between 10am and noon, just before the sun no longer shines directly onto the unit.  However, the general wider air temperature is probably at its warmest on average between 3pm and 4pm every day.

When i find out how to do this, can i assume that the pump will heat up the water in the tank to a set temperature, say 50 degrees, then turn off when the target temperature is reached?

Simplistically...... if i have a schedule to heat DHW say between 11am and 12 noon the pump will turn on if the water is below 50 and begin heating up the water until either the water reaches 50 or at 12 noon whichever happens first?  I am aware that there will be a temp zone say 45 to 50+ where the pump doesn't do anything, otherwise it's forever on and off inefficiently.

akwexavante

I'm guessing that i choose 11am till noon throughout the year or 11am til noon say from 1st October to the end of April and say 2pm to 3pm 1st May to the end of September.

11am to 12 noon is probably the best compromise over a 365 day year for me.