Planning permission needed? Neighbour replacing conservatory with permanent room

dmcint

My mum's neighbours are in the process of converting their current conservatory into a permanent room, but I don't know if they needed planning permission or to consult my mum beforehand. The first she knew of anything happening was the start of the work. The houses are semidetached.

The existing conservatory is brick to waist height and then all glass from there up with a plastic-y roof. It covers most of the width of the house. They've removed the roof and the glass and are now building up with brick. She can see the 2 new windows that will go in as they've been delivered already. The local roofer has been on site so looks like it'll be a tiled roof. The extension doesn't touch the party wall or the garden boundary so entirely within the neighbour's property and the footprint isn't going to be bigger than it was before.

I've checked the council website and they haven't applied for planning for this (though they did back in 2007 for the conservatory and consulted my parents as part of it). But I can't find anything that says whether they should have or whether it would be permitted development. Can anyone provide me with guidance? We're in Scotland if that makes a difference.

Thanks

D

grumbler

IIRC, it's a 'permitted development' if it's no more than 3m deep and less than 4 meters high.

greenface2

same height . same width and same projection . not on mums land . Can I ask why do you care 

Section62

dmcint said:

I've checked the council website and they haven't applied for planning for this (though they did back in 2007 for the conservatory and consulted my parents as part of it). But I can't find anything that says whether they should have or whether it would be permitted development. Can anyone provide me with guidance? We're in Scotland if that makes a difference.

I don't know about the specifics in Scotland, but in England there would be a possibility that permitted development rights would have been (partially) removed when consent was granted for the conservatory - that would mean consent would be needed for extensions/outbuildings etc which would normally be permitted development.  Check the 2007 consent to see if it says anything about PD rights being removed.

I suspect that an application for consent would be needed to demolish the conservatory and replace it with an extension.  I'm not sure that permitted development would apply in a case like this - essentially they are replacing a structure for which explicit consent was given with a structure of a different type.  I would be surprised if the 2007 consent didn't say something about constructing it in accordance with the submitted plans - therefore rebuilding with a different appearance would mean non-compliance with the original consent.  But there is only oneway of finding out.

BUFF

dmcint said:

 But I can't find anything that says whether they should have or whether it would be permitted development. Can anyone provide me with guidance? We're in Scotland if that makes a difference.

It's an easy 'phone call to the council to find out.
It almost certainly requires a Building Warrant which is probably searchable on your council's website.

(for the info of others, Scottish permitted development rights are nowhere near as generous as current English ones)

Rosa_Damascena

dmcint said:

My mum's neighbours are in the process of converting their current conservatory into a permanent room, but I don't know if they needed planning permission or to consult my mum beforehand. The first she knew of anything happening was the start of the work. The houses are semidetached.

The existing conservatory is brick to waist height and then all glass from there up with a plastic-y roof. It covers most of the width of the house. They've removed the roof and the glass and are now building up with brick. She can see the 2 new windows that will go in as they've been delivered already. The local roofer has been on site so looks like it'll be a tiled roof. The extension doesn't touch the party wall or the garden boundary so entirely within the neighbour's property and the footprint isn't going to be bigger than it was before.

Would the existing foundations have been sufficient for a permanent structure?

And whilst informing your Mum of their plans would have been considerate, what cost does your mum bear? Is it encroaching on a party wall?

dmcint

Thanks for your comments. It looks like it's probably covered by permitted development which is what I needed to know. 

Gavin83

Rosa_Damascena said:

dmcint said:

My mum's neighbours are in the process of converting their current conservatory into a permanent room, but I don't know if they needed planning permission or to consult my mum beforehand. The first she knew of anything happening was the start of the work. The houses are semidetached.

The existing conservatory is brick to waist height and then all glass from there up with a plastic-y roof. It covers most of the width of the house. They've removed the roof and the glass and are now building up with brick. She can see the 2 new windows that will go in as they've been delivered already. The local roofer has been on site so looks like it'll be a tiled roof. The extension doesn't touch the party wall or the garden boundary so entirely within the neighbour's property and the footprint isn't going to be bigger than it was before.

And whilst informing your Mum of their plans would have been considerate, what cost does your mum bear? Is it encroaching on a party wall?

I too am curious about this, although I’m not sure we’ll get an answer. Is this thread just for curiosity or if planning permission was required would the mum force the situation? If so I assume she’d plan to object, although I’m not sure on what grounds given it doesn’t seem to be any larger/more intrusive than the existing structure. If she wouldn’t object then I’m not sure why she’d unnecessarily drag this up and likely sour neighbour relations.

While it certainly would have been polite to inform your mum (I would have) they certainly aren’t obliged to. While it’s not entirely clear whether this falls under permitted development it more than likely does.

I feel like there might be a bit more to this story than has been explained though and if I was to take a guess I imagine the relationship with the neighbour is already poor.

Section62

Gavin83 said:

...although I’m not sure on what grounds given it doesn’t seem to be any larger/more intrusive than the existing structure.

A glazed conservatory is a much 'lighter' structure, in terms of that 1) light will pass through it and 2) the appearance is less intrusive compared to solid brick walls and a roof.

Given that planning consent was needed for the conservatory - which usually would be permitted development if PD were allowed - I would still suspect that planning consent would be required for rebuilding as a 'solid' extension even if it is no larger than the existing.

But given some of the reaction they've already had on the thread I'm guessing we won't be hearing much more about the OP's situation. Which is a shame, as the answers might be useful to other people wondering whether they need to apply for consent in their own similar circumstances.

melb

Well said Section62 there really are some unnecessary comments on a lot of these forums.  If someone cannot have the vision to see that a solid brick built structure, even if the same height, would be more oppressive/intrusive than a mainly glass one, they should probably stay silent.

andyf1980

You’d think it common courtesy to let a neighbour know if having building work done.