Credit Card Fraud & Chargeback

MatttheGas

My cc has been cloned recently and in a week someone has run up £522 of debt.
All transactions were less than £100 and used with a contactless payment.
The bank , has decided that it is not possible to clone my card, or at least there is no evidence and consequently their decision is that I or someone else has been using the actual card.
I can see that chargeback can be used to get money back for the transactions in the case of fraud but how can I prove fraud?
Clearly, I can make a claim against each retailer but it seems that following the banks logic , saying what you know to be the truth is irrelevant as the retailer can deny it.
Any ideas on how to progress.

[Deleted User]

You wouldn't use chargeback for fraud, but for non delivery. That would mean accepting the transactions as yours, but that the retailer did not deliver.

What exactly was the finding of the card provider and what sort of transactions were they?

born_again

If they are contactless, then there is no chargeback option. They are treated in exactly the same as a Chip & Pin transaction. Even bank can not claim the money back in these cases.

So who were the transactions to? Is this a local retailer? Do you have the card? Anyone that could take it and use? 

Never seen a cloned contactless card in the whole time they have been available. It is simply not worth it to a fraudster. 

eskbanker

MatttheGas said:

My cc has been cloned recently and in a week someone has run up £522 of debt.
All transactions were less than £100 and used with a contactless payment.
The bank , has decided that it is not possible to clone my card, or at least there is no evidence and consequently their decision is that I or someone else has been using the actual card.
I can see that chargeback can be used to get money back for the transactions in the case of fraud but how can I prove fraud?

What makes you say that your card has been cloned?  It would usually be a case of simply seeing that unauthorised transactions have appeared on your account but without knowing how this happened, and in such circumstances the onus is on the bank to prove that you did authorise them, rather than you having to show that you didn't:

https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account

Having said that, as above it would be highly unusual for a card to be cloned to the extent of being able to make contactless payments, so to what extent are you able to show that the card remained in your possession at all times?

MatttheGas

Thanks for the replies.
The reason why I say cloned is because my card has been in my possession for the whole period. All bar one transactions were contactless.
There is only myself and my partner in my house and we’re at home all the time with COVID, have positive PCR gets evidence as well as a sick note signed by my manager …. Which is about the only evidence that I have to prove where I have been.
All sellers were in the London area ish : Tesco’s, Sainsbury’s, Morrisons, Zara, JD Sports, Food outlets such as Shisha Bars etc.
We live 180 miles from London and although it is fair to say that some outlets have head offices in London and so the cc bill may not actually express the location, the fact that all of them are advised as London and transacted whilst I have been sitting at home is very irritating.
I personally think the bank has chose the easy option of not investigating enough and making an arbitrary decision.

eskbanker

MatttheGas said:

All bar one transactions were contactless.

Was the other one PIN-authorised or transacted online?

MatttheGas said:

I personally think the bank has chose the easy option of not investigating enough and making an arbitrary decision.

In this situation, banks will just conduct a standardised review of the detailed low-level data associated with each transaction authorisation and determine if this is sufficient to conclude that the actual card was used, so there isn't really an easy or difficult option as such (they don't go studying CCTV or anything like that).

You can go through the bank's complaints process and ultimately escalate to the ombudsman or even small claims, but I imagine that it would be massively difficult to win the argument, given how overwhelmingly unlikely it is for anyone to create a clone that's usable contactlessly.

Migster

Is it possible that someone had access to your card and was able to add it to Apple Pay or Google Pay? They could have then transacted contactlessly whilst the card was in your possession. I haven't added a card in ages so can't remember the full process, but this may be a possibility. The bank should be able to check to see if the contactless payments were made with the card or a device.

born_again

MatttheGas said:

Thanks for the replies.
The reason why I say cloned is because my card has been in my possession for the whole period. All bar one transactions were contactless.
There is only myself and my partner in my house and we’re at home all the time with COVID, have positive PCR gets evidence as well as a sick note signed by my manager …. Which is about the only evidence that I have to prove where I have been.
All sellers were in the London area ish : Tesco’s, Sainsbury’s, Morrisons, Zara, JD Sports, Food outlets such as Shisha Bars etc.
We live 180 miles from London and although it is fair to say that some outlets have head offices in London and so the cc bill may not actually express the location, the fact that all of them are advised as London and transacted whilst I have been sitting at home is very irritating.
I personally think the bank has chose the easy option of not investigating enough and making an arbitrary decision.

I can say the only investigation will have been how the transactions were made by checking the internal system. That is the only investigation the bank will ever do. They are not the police & have no right to question retailers or request CCTV.

brianposter

Since when did one need a right to ask questions ?

eskbanker

brianposter said:

Since when did one need a right to ask questions ?

Anyone can ask anyone else questions, but as the card-issuing bank has no direct contractual relationship with retailers, the latter are under no obligation to enter into any discussion, even if the issuing bank felt it was appropriate, which, as above, they wouldn't.

There are standard protocols available to handle chargebacks via the retailer's acquiring bank where applicable (not here, as above) but actual ad hoc card fraud investigations are a police matter, and wouldn't be pursued at this (two-figure) sort of value....

brianposter

eskbanker said: actual ad hoc card fraud investigations are a police matter, and wouldn't be pursued at this (two-figure) sort of value....

Although it is presumably of interest to know whether a a contactless card has, or has not, been cloned, or whether some technical problem has occcured.

In the meantime the OP could presumably ask the retailers for the precise location of the transactions.