Garmin watches & vo2 max

JustAnotherSaver

So I bought a 2nd hand Garmin (FR735XT) at a decent price to see if i could make the shift from my Samsung GW or not.

Now without getting in to all the other things on the Garmin just yet, one of the things I was curious about was this vo2 max as supposedly the GW3 has it yet when I do any Googling, it just ends me up at the blood oxygen section of Samsung Health which is different to vo2 max.

So i set it up to track a walk but as there's no 'walk' feature on the watch, I set it as a run. For the record this was before i found out about this vo2 max thing.

Anyway, I then find out about it & it gives me a score of 47 I THINK based on this walk.

Now it was a walk, not a run, so I delete it but the score remains.

I also can't run due to my knee trouble so i can't get an accurate score that way. I try cycling ..... only to then find out (i think) that I need a power meter, which if my Googling has me thinking correct - means many many £100s and they're all clipless pedal setups (which I've never done).

No matter what I do though, it wont shift from the date of that walk at the start.

Now since I'm not about to spend damn near a grand just for this feature, is there either 1) a way of getting a reasonably accurate score or 2) resetting this thing so it doesn't keep pointing to that walk date?

[Deleted User]

So the VO2 max is only just released as a software update on the GW's so you might not see much about it yet online.

These kinds of features on smart watches have their limitations. It cannot ever measure VO2 max accurately, you need a laboratory setup for that.

However, where it does become useful, even with its inaccuracy, is comparison over time. So if you are increasing your fitness through exercise, your VO2 max score will increase, and that is far more interesting than the absolute value itself. Whatever your watch estimated your VO2 at is exactly that, an estimate and not a very good one if you were just walking. Get as many data points as possible over a period of 6 months and that number will start to mean something.

The problem with estimating VO2 max from walking is that your aren't actually testing your VO2 max at all. VO2 max occurs when you are exercising as hard as you can, heart rate at maximum and breathing as fast and deep as your body will allow - basically reaching your wall in terms of fitness. Unless you actually reach that wall then your estimated VO2 max will be way off.

Hope that answers number 1). 

For number 2), doesn't appear to be a way to do that other than resetting your account completely to erase all data. Personally I'd just leave it or get an more accurate result from retesting under the recommended conditions.

General advice though from myself, I've used fitness trackers for years and been through a bit of an obsession, seen all sorts of metrics, the ones that really matter are much simpler. If you want to get fitter and improve your health then simply doing more exercise and increasing the intensity / duration is your best metric to be concerned with.

Alongside that, monitoring your weight and calorie intake can also be useful.

JustAnotherSaver

Thanks for the input.

I actually wanted to test it out because my GW3 didn't have it and was simply curious what my number is. 

Although for walking it put me at 47 saying i'm in the 'top 25% for my age' I was disappointed with it. I have (in my opinion) quite a strong cardiovascular system. I would say my endurance/stamina is high, so I was disappointed with a 47, even though it said it was good.

As I say, i'm not about to spend big money on bike power meters because I'm not yet ready to go clipless for starts.

For monitoring over time I actually have a MyZone belt & account which I use at my gym & if you're familiar with those then a general workout will see me hit about an 80-84% average over a 45-60 minute span. When I get off the machines my recovery is very quick, so to keep in the zone I need to be quite quick when switching machines else I drop in to the lower zones really quickly.

Not yet on my GW3 though. Maybe it's due an update? Though i've checked and it says nothing right now.

Unless it's not coming to the GW3?

[Deleted User]

JustAnotherSaver said:

Although for walking it put me at 47 saying i'm in the 'top 25% for my age' I was disappointed with it. I have (in my opinion) quite a strong cardiovascular system. I would say my endurance/stamina is high, so I was disappointed with a 47, even though it said it was good.

I don't know what your age or gender is but 47 is generally a good score.

VO2 max doesn't directly relate to endurance or stamina though, it is a measure of peak performance. A middle distance runner (800-3000 metre) will typically have a higher VO2 max than either a marathon runner or a 100 metre sprinter. The marathon runner will not utilise full power for the whole distance and therefore doesn't require a super high VO2 max. For a 100 metre sprinter, VO2 max isn't a limiting factor.

VO2 max relates directly to:

• How much blood the heart pumps to the muscles each beat (cardiac output)
• How efficiently the muscles extract oxygen from the blood and utilize it

But we are all built differently - you could compare yourself to somebody with exactly the same VO2 max and they could be significantly faster / slower at running and/or have longer / shorter maximum distance.

What is more important is the trend over time. Naturally as we age over 30 we lose 1-2% VO2 max per year. By beating that trend you are keeping fitter. Increasing above that trend shows one aspect of your fitness improving - and that one aspect is your cardiovascular system.

So although endurance / stamina / recovery all improve as you get fitter, they don't directly relate to VO2 max.

As for power meters on your bike etc, up to you but I don't bother with them, spending the money on good cycling gear will be more useful if it makes you more likely to go out and cycle and for longer distances.

Looks like the GW4 got the update for VO2 max scores from a quick Google.

EDIT: Just to add - 1 measure of VO2 is just one data point and doesn't mean a lot. Statistically you need lots of measures over a long period of time for it to be more meaningful, especially with the somewhat inaccurate estimates of VO2 provided by fitness trackers.

Emmia

As a fellow Garmin user, if you're walking, can I recommend the "walker" app which shows all the data fields you could want.

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/developer/965352cf-b6f0-4c7b-948a-89e949ed1d8f/apps

JustAnotherSaver

@[Deleted User] - The GW3 actually has vo2 max as you say. I did some YouTubing last night & found it. Looks like it's only on select exercises.

Tested it out today and it gave me an 84.

As you say though, on wearables they wont be the most accurate. I just fancied trying it out.

And for the record i'm a 38yr old male.

@Emmia - only recently got that actually. Decent app.

I actually tried looking out a Garmin forum this morning but was quite disappointed. I was looking on the basis of at some point asking for advice on WHICH Garmin watch would suit me based on criteria XYZ.

I found forums sure enough - specific to every single device going. That's all well and good if you know what you're looking at to begin with but I don't. I would fit in to the 'general' category ... which they don't seem to accomodate.

Chickereeeee

In Garmin Connect app, under Settings>User Settings, you can set what VO2MAX you want,

Emmia

JustAnotherSaver said:

@[Deleted User] - The GW3 actually has vo2 max as you say. I did some YouTubing last night & found it. Looks like it's only on select exercises.

Tested it out today and it gave me an 84.

As you say though, on wearables they wont be the most accurate. I just fancied trying it out.

And for the record i'm a 38yr old male.

@Emmia - only recently got that actually. Decent app.

I actually tried looking out a Garmin forum this morning but was quite disappointed. I was looking on the basis of at some point asking for advice on WHICH Garmin watch would suit me based on criteria XYZ.

I found forums sure enough - specific to every single device going. That's all well and good if you know what you're looking at to begin with but I don't. I would fit in to the 'general' category ... which they don't seem to accomodate.

Thinking about what activities I do, helped me select my Fenix 6 - I want to use the device to record when I walk, run, swim, and when I do Pilates or Spin classes.

That combination (particularly the swim part) and my preference for a metal (rather than silicone) strap meant the Fenix was the best device for me. I bought it when my TomTom went to sportwatch heaven, so I was quite clear in what I wanted.

Having a Fenix is overkill though as it will also cover downhill skiing, mountain climbing, rowing, and many, many other activities I'll never do... (but I could, and I could record it!)

Unlike the TomTom, the Fenix can be customised to easily show the activities you do, and hide those you don't.

*As for the alternatives... An apple watch would probably also have worked, but as the only apple product I have is my work iPhone, it wasn't a contender. Previous research in this area indicated that FitBit devices are less accurate at recording, and I don't think they have metal straps as an option... again ruling them out. Other device brands (and some Garmins) are mostly ruled out by the need for swimming in particular.

Chickereeeee

The Amazfit range seems to work well. One is a Which Best Buy, I know a couple of people who use them, they track multiple sports, measure blood O2 content directly (hence also VO2 max for cycling etc without  power meter) and are some what cheaper than most.

JustAnotherSaver

@Emmia - looking at Garmins on and off lately and for what they can do I think it'd benefit me if one could replace my Galaxy Watch.

I like the feature of that Body Battery that i've learned about the past couple days. No, not a deal breaker but I like the idea of the feature for sure.

I no longer have an iPhone other than my works phone too. I don't know how good they are really or whether they're big due to their name. One thing and one thing only let's the watch down massively for me - the 18hr battery life. That's abysmal in this day & age & also the fact it hasn't changed any since they first put one out. I'm sure they could do better there, they just choose not to.

No, my Galaxy Watch 3 isn't amazing on battery either, but it's better than that. I can get 2 days use out of mine - that includes 2 sleeps, 2 lots of 45-60 minute workouts & 2 work days. By the end of this i'm around 13-16% battery.

One thing I would need to look in to more is the sleep tracking on Garmin's. I know the FR 735XT doesn't have advanced tracking but when i've been looking at the FR 945 on YouTube - seeing peoples stats over a 5 or 6 hour sleep makes me question how accurate it is. Nearly 2 hours deep sleep over such a short timeframe? From my own personal experience (using a Galaxy Watch 3) and from the book I've recently read on sleep, I would question that accuracy quite heavily. In fact I'd say based on the YT videos i've watched, I simply don't believe it's accurate. 2 hours deep sleep over a 5-6hr total sleep? Sorry, no.

My own FR 735XT will also often say i've been awake for like 8 minutes where my Galaxy Watch 3 will say something like 50 minutes. Now, I don't know if the GW3 is accurate but i know for a nailed on fact that the 735XT is incorrect as i'll have been awake much more than 8 mins purely by how many times I'll have needed to get up to go pee and then struggled to get back to sleep.

So yeah sleep tracking (& its accuracy) is quite an important factor for me.

I don't really do weights in the gym, but this may be a feature. Tracking this, I'm not sure how bothered i'd be but it'd be nice to have the option.

I currently do cardio machines. Step master, cross trainer (or elliptical), stationary bike, walking on a treadmill at incline - so i'd like to be able to track these things.

Outdoor cycling obviously.

Running is irrelevant as I can't do it.