As a landlord, I am trying to get deposit back from TDS - should I go to small claims

lied

Dear all, Looking for some guidance on my issue. I have read a fair bit of posts on MSE so I have an idea but could do with some help

Summary: Let my apartment out in London several years ago through an agency, rent-collection only. Multiple tenants on the same contract (so multiple signatories). The deposit was/is protected by TDS.

The place was left in a terrible state and cost me more to fix up than the deposit amount.

TDS cannot help as 3+ months have passed. Agency won't give me the deposit until the tenants agree. Tenants have not responded to any email attempts to contact them.

I just want the remaining deposit back - just around £1,000 will go a long way right now.

Do I now go to small claims? The online form requires the addresses of tenants which I do not have. Also, any suggestions on how I could improve my chances? I have kept copies of all correspondence (all on email), and paperwork from the agency including check-in/out reports.

Many thanks.

grumiofoundation

I don’t see why you would take the tenants to small claims edit: over missing deposit - any repairs over this is separate issue as detailed below)? They don’t have your money. 

Is the deposit still protected by TDS? Custodial or insured? Did you (or your agent) go through the dispute process? 

theartfullodger

Deposit is tenant's money, not yours.  

Artful: Landlord.

canaldumidi

lied said:

Summary: Let my apartment out in London several years ago through an agency, rent-collection only. Multiple tenants on the same contract (so multiple signatories joint tenancy). The deposit was/is protected by TDS. I assume their custodial scheme?

The place was left in a terrible state and cost me more to fix up than the deposit amount.

So claim for the deposit and sue for the rest. Have you properly itemised the costs? Have you a condition report/inventory from the start? Have you a condition report from the end? Who did the reports?

TDS cannot help as 3+ months have passed. Why have you waited so long?

Agency won't give me the deposit until the tenants agree. If the agents were 'rent collection only', then what have they got to do with the matter? (see link below) Raise a dispute. Should have done so months ago.

Tenants have not responded to any email attempts to contact them. Do you have a current address? You'll need oe for court action.

I just want the remaining deposit back - just around £1,000 will go a long way right now. so raise a dispute.

Do I now go to small claims? The online form requires the addresses of tenants which I do not have. Also, any suggestions on how I could improve my chances? I have kept copies of all correspondence (all on email), and paperwork from the agency including check-in/out reports.

Without an address forthe twnants court action will be hard. You may be able to use 'last know address' (ie your property), but court may not accept this. Place of work? Plus of course, assuming you find them (or just one of them), and assuming you win, if they have no money or assets you won't get anything anyway.

Chase the deposit via the scheme - way overdue!

Post 9: Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?

saajan_12

lied said:

Dear all, Looking for some guidance on my issue. I have read a fair bit of posts on MSE so I have an idea but could do with some help

Summary: Let my apartment out in London several years ago through an agency, rent-collection only. Multiple tenants on the same contract (so multiple signatories). The deposit was/is protected by TDS.

The place was left in a terrible state and cost me more to fix up than the deposit amount.

TDS cannot help as 3+ months have passed. Agency won't give me the deposit until the tenants agree. Tenants have not responded to any email attempts to contact them.

I just want the remaining deposit back - just around £1,000 will go a long way right now.

Do I now go to small claims? The online form requires the addresses of tenants which I do not have. Also, any suggestions on how I could improve my chances? I have kept copies of all correspondence (all on email), and paperwork from the agency including check-in/out reports.

Many thanks.

Key question is who is holding the deposit? eg
a) TDS under a custodial scheme
b) LL under an insured scheme 
c) Agent under an insured scheme
d) Tenant because it was released to them

The agent works for you, so you need to instruct them on what to do (or possibly take action against them). 

steampowered

The court rules provide that an individual may be served at their "Usual or last known residence".

The court rules go on to state that, if you believe the defendant is no longer present at that address, you must take reasonable steps to ascertain the correct address. However, if after taking those reasonable steps you are unable to find the new address, the claim may be served at the original address. 

So - if you are in contact with the tenants by email and they refuse to give you their new address - you could issue legal proceedings against them using their previous address (i.e. your property). If you go down that route you should email a copy of the claim to them so that there is no doubt over whether they received the court proceedings.

In addition, I don't think you could use the small claims process to get the £1,000 released by the TDS. You would need an order from the court stating that TDS should release the deposit to you, and I don't think you can get that using the online small claims service - you might need to fill in court form N1 and file a paper copy with your nearest county court. 

Not sure it's worth the bother for the sake of £1k.

You could do a deal where you say release £200 to the tenants if they release the remaining £800 to you? They can't access the money either while it is in the TDS, and have probably written it off in their own minds.

lied

Thank you, grumiofoundation, theartfullodger, saajan_12, canaldumidi, steampowered.

Some really helpful comments/questions. I summarise answers as best as I can to avoid a war and peace post

• Why small claims court - just advice I was given by citizens advice. I'd rather save everyone time
  
• Deposit is tenant's money - I agree
• Deposit protection - Agent insured. After pressing the agent for an answer other than "speak to TDS" ... their words "we hold the deposit under TDS guidelines. The appeal should have been made with TDS within three months".
• Condition report - I have these from the start and end by an independent company (agents organised this)
• Why have I waited this long - the first six months after the end of tenancy are literally life, death, illness, job. Since then the agents' responses of ... nothing can be done three months have passed.
• Rent-collection agents and deposit holders as I have found out.
• Thanks for the link canaldumidi
• Thanks for the suggestion steampowered. Any cash, if released, will be helpful right now. The idea of doing a deal may be worth trying. I do not have the tenants' current addresses
  

Thank you.

canaldumidi

I'm not familiar with the insurance scheme, bu assume that as the LL/agent holds the money (not TDS) then it is for the teant to make a claim if they wish to dispute deductions. Someone else may know better.

Assuming the tenant has been informed of the damage, and the itemised deductions, and has not disputed them, surely the LL/agent takes (retains) possesion of the deposit.

And since the agent is simply.... the LL's 'agent', as such they must act according to the LL's instructions eg to pass the deposit to the LL. It is certainly not the agent's money.

As per the link I provided, for the future, if you are going to self-manage and just use the agent for tenant-find, then.... self-manage. Don't leave a tenant-find agent with duties/obligations that continue beyond the finding of the tenant!

Jumblebumble

canaldumidi said:

I'm not familiar with the insurance scheme, bu assume that as the LL/agent holds the money (not TDS) then it is for the teant to make a claim if they wish to dispute deductions. Someone else may know better.

Assuming the tenant has been informed of the damage, and the itemised deductions, and has not disputed them, surely the LL/agent takes (retains) possesion of the deposit.

And since the agent is simply.... the LL's 'agent', as such they must act according to the LL's instructions eg to pass the deposit to the LL. It is certainly not the agent's money.

As per the link I provided, for the future, if you are going to self-manage and just use the agent for tenant-find, then.... self-manage. Don't leave a tenant-find agent with duties/obligations that continue beyond the finding of the tenant!

I agree 100%
I cannot imagine why any landlord  of sound  mind would even consider not holding on to the deposit themselves and paying £20 or so for insuring it in the deposit scheme and making sure no letting agent has it in their grubby little hands.
If the Letting Agent goes bust or the tenant dies the landlord will not  have any problem
If someone else has the deposit ......

theartfullodger

Jumblebumble said:

....................
I cannot imagine why any landlord  of sound  mind would even consider not holding on to the deposit themselves and paying £20 or so for insuring it in the deposit scheme..............

Why would anyone of sound mind spend £20 unnecessarily when custodial schemes are free, please?? 

lied

Thank you for your comments/suggestions.

I will try the agency route again and see if an agreement can be reached. It's difficult for me to just accept that the agents keep the money just because of a dispute which is in their interest to not resolve.

My take away - never let a property again.