What to do about the lodger?

Choppit69

My mother-in-law passed away a few weeks ago, and we're currently in the process of dealing with her affairs. As she was living in a housing association property, her rent was paid for her, but she had a lodger living with her for the last 6 years, with no formal arrangement, and it seems, no regular contribution. As soon as the HA was informed of her death (same day), we informed the lodger of the date we'd be handing the keys back (about 2 weeks from now). As we still have the keys (as does the lodger), but the registered tenant has died, my understanding is that the estate is on the hook for rent, utilities, council tax etc, which the lodger is benefiting from, and is unlikely to contribute to. There are already over 2 years of arrears for utilities, which are increasing due to the lodger, and very little in the estate to cover the costs. My primary concern at the moment is how to ensure the lodger leaves (who will then be homeless), so we can hand back the house, and settle the affairs. Any advice? I'll also be talking to Citizens Advice once I can get hold of someone.

Keep_pedalling

It could be worse than that, if she was getter her rent paid but charging rent for a lodger the LA may be looking to get fraudulently claimed housing benefit back.

If her estate is insolvent you need to walk away from it.

easy

Surely, if this other person wasn't paying any form of lodging fee, nor any regular or formal contribution to the utilities,  they were not a lodger,  simply a guest?  
In which case they can be given a date by which they must leave,  and you go and collect their keys from them on that date.  I would give them a week - enough time to find somewhere else to sleep,  and maybe offer to help with moving some belongings if they don't have a car ...

Surely you simply say that the house has to be handed back to the HA,  it's out of your hands ?

I doubt you can do much about the utilities over that week,  unless you really want/need  to be hard-hearted on your M-I-Ls guest. Presumably there was some sort of friendship/relationship between them,  and the guest will be mourning her loss.  It would seem unkind to burden them with expenses they weren't used to paying at this time,  unless you REALLY can't afford to just suck the extra week up.

Choppit69

Keep_pedalling said:

It could be worse than that, if she was getter her rent paid but charging rent for a lodger the LA may be looking to get fraudulently claimed housing benefit back.

If her estate is insolvent you need to walk away from it.

A bit stark, but practically, how would we walk away from it?

Choppit69

easy said:

Surely, if this other person wasn't paying any form of lodging fee, nor any regular or formal contribution to the utilities,  they were not a lodger,  simply a guest?  
In which case they can be given a date by which they must leave,  and you go and collect their keys from them on that date.  I would give them a week - enough time to find somewhere else to sleep,  and maybe offer to help with moving some belongings if they don't have a car ...

Surely you simply say that the house has to be handed back to the HA,  it's out of your hands ?

They were definitely lodging (i.e. not just a guest), but based on what I've seen so far, payment was in the form of cash here and there, help around the house, the odd item, and transport.

Marcon

Choppit69 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

It could be worse than that, if she was getter her rent paid but charging rent for a lodger the LA may be looking to get fraudulently claimed housing benefit back.

If her estate is insolvent you need to walk away from it.

A bit stark, but practically, how would we walk away from it?

By doing nothing at all. You are not required to do anything (although it usually leaves people feeling bad about doing nothing).

Savvy_Sue

You can help the lodger by directing them to the council's homelessness services.

Does your mum's Housing Officer know about them?

Choppit69

easy said:

Surely, if this other person wasn't paying any form of lodging fee, nor any regular or formal contribution to the utilities,  they were not a lodger,  simply a guest?  
In which case they can be given a date by which they must leave,  and you go and collect their keys from them on that date.  I would give them a week - enough time to find somewhere else to sleep,  and maybe offer to help with moving some belongings if they don't have a car ...

Surely you simply say that the house has to be handed back to the HA,  it's out of your hands ?

I doubt you can do much about the utilities over that week,  unless you really want/need  to be hard-hearted on your M-I-Ls guest. Presumably there was some sort of friendship/relationship between them,  and the guest will be mourning her loss.  It would seem unkind to burden them with expenses they weren't used to paying at this time,  unless you REALLY can't afford to just suck the extra week up.

There's a whole load of background that I haven't mentioned, but the presence of the lodger, and the MILs loyalty to them meant that she didn't get the care she needed, so we have no loyalty towards the lodger. I'm hoping that the lodger either leaves by the date we've given, or the HA just takes our keys back and deals with it.

Choppit69

Savvy_Sue said:

You can help the lodger by directing them to the council's homelessness services.

Does your mum's Housing Officer know about them?

We informed the HA directly when we reported the death, whether they knew before that I don't know, but they've led us to believe we're responsible for evicting the lodger. Additionally going back a couple of years, the MILs care team (health/social) had raised concerns on multiple occasions about the lodger for safeguarding reasons, but were unsuccessful in having them removed because the MIL was both competent and complicit.

MalMonroe

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

I agree with Savvy Sue that the lodger should be advised about the council's homelessness service - as they weren't contributing to any costs, the Housing Association won't be able to recognise them as a tenant, sadly.

I guess if your mother in law was receiving benefits and the lodger wasn't contributing to household costs, there's a whole heap of things that were being done that shouldn't have been (as you say - things you haven't mentioned - and nor should you).

There is some information from National Debtline (one of the free debt help agencies that the MSE forum recommends) which I think is very helpful in this link - https://nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/debts-after-death-ew/

Scroll down to 'what happens to debts when somebody dies?'  If debts are solely in your mother in law's name, nobody else will be liable to pay them.

You may have to let the HA know that there was someone staying with your mother in law at the time of her death but that that person doesn't seem to understand the position they are now in. You can only do so much - and you are very kindly obviously not wanting to turn the 'lodger' out onto the street but the HA is going to want to reclaim their property.

It's good that you're trying to contact Citizens Advice, they are very busy but I'm sure they will be able to advise further. 

Keep_pedalling

Choppit69 said:

easy said:

Surely, if this other person wasn't paying any form of lodging fee, nor any regular or formal contribution to the utilities,  they were not a lodger,  simply a guest?  
In which case they can be given a date by which they must leave,  and you go and collect their keys from them on that date.  I would give them a week - enough time to find somewhere else to sleep,  and maybe offer to help with moving some belongings if they don't have a car ...

Surely you simply say that the house has to be handed back to the HA,  it's out of your hands ?

I doubt you can do much about the utilities over that week,  unless you really want/need  to be hard-hearted on your M-I-Ls guest. Presumably there was some sort of friendship/relationship between them,  and the guest will be mourning her loss.  It would seem unkind to burden them with expenses they weren't used to paying at this time,  unless you REALLY can't afford to just suck the extra week up.

There's a whole load of background that I haven't mentioned, but the presence of the lodger, and the MILs loyalty to them meant that she didn't get the care she needed, so we have no loyalty towards the lodger. I'm hoping that the lodger either leaves by the date we've given, or the HA just takes our keys back and deals with it.

Choppit69 said:

easy said:

Surely, if this other person wasn't paying any form of lodging fee, nor any regular or formal contribution to the utilities,  they were not a lodger,  simply a guest?  
In which case they can be given a date by which they must leave,  and you go and collect their keys from them on that date.  I would give them a week - enough time to find somewhere else to sleep,  and maybe offer to help with moving some belongings if they don't have a car ...

Surely you simply say that the house has to be handed back to the HA,  it's out of your hands ?

I doubt you can do much about the utilities over that week,  unless you really want/need  to be hard-hearted on your M-I-Ls guest. Presumably there was some sort of friendship/relationship between them,  and the guest will be mourning her loss.  It would seem unkind to burden them with expenses they weren't used to paying at this time,  unless you REALLY can't afford to just suck the extra week up.

There's a whole load of background that I haven't mentioned, but the presence of the lodger, and the MILs loyalty to them meant that she didn't get the care she needed, so we have no loyalty towards the lodger. I'm hoping that the lodger either leaves by the date we've given, or the HA just takes our keys back and deals with it.

Don’t get involved with the lodger issue, it is entirely down to the housing association to remove him/ her. On the assumption that after funeral expenses she has no assets, write the the HA informing them that the estate is insolvent, that you are not administering it and that you will not be entering in any further correspondence. Hand the letter in with the set of keys you have.