Car & bicycle incident - claim question.

Aretnap

Grey_Critic said:

***Purely guessing now but maybe the situation now is they'll take 95% of any win, whereas if I was a member of a cycling club then they'd only take 60% (random figures for the example)?***

Personally I would expect any claim for damages to include costs.

From experience it is surprising how many people take a claim to court but do not include their costs.

In most cases the percentage that a NWNF firm can charge is capped at 25% of the total compensation. (If you were covered by legal expenses insurance, eg through a cycling club, home insurance or trade union membership, the lawyers fee would be paid by insurance, at least up to the maximum sum the insurance would cover, so the percentage claimed by the solicitors would be zero.

With a conditional fee arrangement, the percentage claimed by your solicitor in the event of success cannot be reclaimed as damages/costs. Instead, at the time the law was changed to allow fee agreements if this type, personal injury compensation levels were increased by 10% across the board to make up for the fact that solicitors would be taking a cut of them. 

10% is of course lower than 25%. I believe the intention was that 25% would be a cap, not the industry standard, and that most people would actually pay less. However in practice 25% has become fairly standard, at least for small to middling claims, and it will be difficult to find a NWNF firm willing to settle for a smaller percentage. 

whatwasmyname

Aretnap said:

Grey_Critic said:

***Purely guessing now but maybe the situation now is they'll take 95% of any win, whereas if I was a member of a cycling club then they'd only take 60% (random figures for the example)?***

Personally I would expect any claim for damages to include costs.

From experience it is surprising how many people take a claim to court but do not include their costs.

In most cases the percentage that a NWNF firm can charge is capped at 25% of the total compensation. (If you were covered by legal expenses insurance, eg through a cycling club, home insurance or trade union membership, the lawyers fee would be paid by insurance, at least up to the maximum sum the insurance would cover, so the percentage claimed by the solicitors would be zero.

With a conditional fee arrangement, the percentage claimed by your solicitor in the event of success cannot be reclaimed as damages/costs. Instead, at the time the law was changed to allow fee agreements if this type, personal injury compensation levels were increased by 10% across the board to make up for the fact that solicitors would be taking a cut of them. 

10% is of course lower than 25%. I believe the intention was that 25% would be a cap, not the industry standard, and that most people would actually pay less. However in practice 25% has become fairly standard, at least for small to middling claims, and it will be difficult to find a NWNF firm willing to settle for a smaller percentage. 

So if I've followed that correctly then purely on wages alone we're going to be talking over £1000. 

So for simple maths, let's forget everything else (bike repair, medical costs, injury etc that'll all bump the end total up) and take the round figure of £1000 for wages even though it'll be over that.

So what you're saying (i think) is the max they can take in my [NWNF] situation is 25%? So another assumption - let's assume they take the full 25% again for easy maths.

So if they payout is £1000 then I'll receive £750 in my pocket (in this hypothetical scenario) is what you're saying?

Or have I misunderstood you & it's not quite like that?

Aretnap

whatwasmyname said:

Aretnap said:

Grey_Critic said:

***Purely guessing now but maybe the situation now is they'll take 95% of any win, whereas if I was a member of a cycling club then they'd only take 60% (random figures for the example)?***

Personally I would expect any claim for damages to include costs.

From experience it is surprising how many people take a claim to court but do not include their costs.

In most cases the percentage that a NWNF firm can charge is capped at 25% of the total compensation. (If you were covered by legal expenses insurance, eg through a cycling club, home insurance or trade union membership, the lawyers fee would be paid by insurance, at least up to the maximum sum the insurance would cover, so the percentage claimed by the solicitors would be zero.

With a conditional fee arrangement, the percentage claimed by your solicitor in the event of success cannot be reclaimed as damages/costs. Instead, at the time the law was changed to allow fee agreements if this type, personal injury compensation levels were increased by 10% across the board to make up for the fact that solicitors would be taking a cut of them. 

10% is of course lower than 25%. I believe the intention was that 25% would be a cap, not the industry standard, and that most people would actually pay less. However in practice 25% has become fairly standard, at least for small to middling claims, and it will be difficult to find a NWNF firm willing to settle for a smaller percentage. 

So if they payout is £1000 then I'll receive £750 in my pocket (in this hypothetical scenario) is what you're saying?

Or have I misunderstood you & it's not quite like that?

That's correct, yes. 

The other thing to consider is that £250 doesn't buy a great deal of solicitor time, so if you're claim is as small (in the grand scheme of things) as £1000 then it might not be commercially viable for them to take out on under a NWNF agreement,  especially if it's not a super-quick, simple, open and shut case.

But as you say it's likely to be bigger than that in practice; as well as loss of earnings there'll be damage to your property (ie your bike) and general damages (compensation for pain and suffering, over and above actual financial losses) to factor in. And if the solicitors firm do think it's too small for them, the worst they can do is decline to take it on, which leaves you no worse off than you are now. 

whatwasmyname

Aretnap said:

whatwasmyname said:

Aretnap said:

Grey_Critic said:

***Purely guessing now but maybe the situation now is they'll take 95% of any win, whereas if I was a member of a cycling club then they'd only take 60% (random figures for the example)?***

Personally I would expect any claim for damages to include costs.

From experience it is surprising how many people take a claim to court but do not include their costs.

In most cases the percentage that a NWNF firm can charge is capped at 25% of the total compensation. (If you were covered by legal expenses insurance, eg through a cycling club, home insurance or trade union membership, the lawyers fee would be paid by insurance, at least up to the maximum sum the insurance would cover, so the percentage claimed by the solicitors would be zero.

With a conditional fee arrangement, the percentage claimed by your solicitor in the event of success cannot be reclaimed as damages/costs. Instead, at the time the law was changed to allow fee agreements if this type, personal injury compensation levels were increased by 10% across the board to make up for the fact that solicitors would be taking a cut of them. 

10% is of course lower than 25%. I believe the intention was that 25% would be a cap, not the industry standard, and that most people would actually pay less. However in practice 25% has become fairly standard, at least for small to middling claims, and it will be difficult to find a NWNF firm willing to settle for a smaller percentage. 

So if they payout is £1000 then I'll receive £750 in my pocket (in this hypothetical scenario) is what you're saying?

Or have I misunderstood you & it's not quite like that?

That's correct, yes. 

The other thing to consider is that £250 doesn't buy a great deal of solicitor time, so if you're claim is as small (in the grand scheme of things) as £1000 then it might not be commercially viable for them to take out on under a NWNF agreement,  especially if it's not a super-quick, simple, open and shut case.

But as you say it's likely to be bigger than that in practice; as well as loss of earnings there'll be damage to your property (ie your bike) and general damages (compensation for pain and suffering, over and above actual financial losses) to factor in. And if the solicitors firm do think it's too small for them, the worst they can do is decline to take it on, which leaves you no worse off than you are now. 

They were straight with me and said this could take 12 months or more to sort out. 

But yes obviously it'll be more than £1000. There's the obvious payments - 

Wages will probably come in at about £1100-£1200. This depends if I go in to a 3rd week or not (hoping not). Also depends how they calculate my pay as it varies. Basic pay no overtime? Overtime isn't a choice where I work so you're talking approx. minimum 10 hours overtime per week up to about 20, but anyway, say £1100-£1200 for a 2 week lay off.

There's the bike computer - he's paid me £270 for that but whether that's accepted in a legal case (imagine it will be but who knows with these things). The actual bundle I bought cost £360 but the sensors are fine.

There's the bike getting checked over which is minimum £50. I didn't see anything obviously damaged but if there is then that'll be an addition.

There's the medication I've now been put on which comes at £18.70 for now. I already had Tramadol at home otherwise that would've been an additional £9.35. Whether they charge for that because I wouldn't be using it otherwise, who knows.

But then there's the unknown cost.

Obviously I'm in pain, i'm struggling bending & straightening as well as gripping.

Not only that but found yesterday that there's nerve damage. I can stick a needle in my elbow & not even feel it (other than the pressure - but no pain). The GP reckons it's temporary as I can feel my fingers but I've heard that before. I think it's this sensation that's causing some of the discomfort. GP reckons it'll take a month to get back to 'normal'. I take timeframes with a pinch of salt. It takes as long or as short as it takes. It may be right tomorrow or never.

Grey_Critic

So how much is the bike worth - £100 - £500 - £1,000 - £10,000 -  they are not cheap these days. Loss of earnings - got to be around £350 per week.

You have also to consider long term effects - you have now said there is nerve damage. You will need medical reports to assess this. I had a cycling accident in 2017 (my own fault) and still suffer some effects.

My grandson was off work for 4 months - it took another 3 months to get back his fitness level. His bike cost in the region of £3,000 secondhand. As he said at the time he was lucky to be financially secure as £90 per week sick pay did not pay the bills.

Never mind NWNF you should not be out of pocket which I why I commented earlier your claim has to include costs.

whatwasmyname

Grey_Critic said:

So how much is the bike worth - £100 - £500 - £1,000 - £10,000 -  they are not cheap these days. Loss of earnings - got to be around £350 per week.

You have also to consider long term effects - you have now said there is nerve damage. You will need medical reports to assess this. I had a cycling accident in 2017 (my own fault) and still suffer some effects.

My grandson was off work for 4 months - it took another 3 months to get back his fitness level. His bike cost in the region of £3,000 secondhand. As he said at the time he was lucky to be financially secure as £90 per week sick pay did not pay the bills.

Never mind NWNF you should not be out of pocket which I why I commented earlier your claim has to include costs.

I've asked the bike repair shop if they can value the bike. Not sure they've understood the question based on their reply. 
As far as bikes go, or can go, mine isn't really worth much as I bought it about 2017 for approx. £500. 
I was actually looking at getting a new bike (switching from hybrid to road) with a budget of somewhere around £2,000 now that I actually get out on the bike when I can at the weekends so I'm glad that I actually decided to put it off!!

Loss of earnings I've already mentioned and I guess it completely depends on how the powers that be decide to calculate it. My basic pay varies wildly from what I would've done had i worked the week which also varies wildly if you compare to my average earnings. The range starts at probably around a base of £440 per week (gross) up to just over £600 gross. Either way you look at it, it's in and around the £1000 area for 2 weeks which is why I mentioned £1k earlier.


The bit in bold - I'm not used to legal issues so you'll have to bare with me as I've never been here before. I thought a claim would include costs (what do you mean by costs anyway?) regardless? I assumed any claim would just include absolutely everything that was a cost. Wages, bike, repairs, medical bills, personal injury, solicitor fees, everything?

Grey_Critic

whatwasmyname said:

The bit in bold - I'm not used to legal issues so you'll have to bare with me as I've never been here before. I thought a claim would include costs (what do you mean by costs anyway?) regardless? I assumed any claim would just include absolutely everything that was a cost. Wages, bike, repairs, medical bills, personal injury, solicitor fees, everything?

Whilst the insurers were informed when my Grandson had his accident the actual claim was not submitted until he had been signed off by the Doctors. He had reveived Physio and undertook a physical training programme in the month(s) before returning to work..

His claim was for everything and included all costs including taxi fares to and from the hospital which is around 14 miles each way and a new helmet. Official advice is that it should be replaced after an accident.

He is now back commuting by bike besides doing club rides and recently took part in his first 10 mile time trial coming a respectable sixth in his class. - and yes he is fully insured.

It is important that you get the correct medical advice/help as sometimes the full extent of injuries may not become apparent for some time. How much nerve damage is there and will it give problems in the future?

Herzlos

whatwasmyname said:

I've asked the bike repair shop if they can value the bike. Not sure they've understood the question based on their reply. 
As far as bikes go, or can go, mine isn't really worth much as I bought it about 2017 for approx. £500.

The risk with a crash on a bike is that there could be many hidden stresses that won't cause problems until later. Of course it depends on how bad the impact was, but you seem badly injured so I'm assuming it was fairly hard.

So I think I'd be looking at what an equivalent bike would cost now as it'd be safer to just replace the whole thing, and potentially cheaper than having the bike take the whole thing apart to test everything. On most bikes, you can easily hit the £500 mark if you need to start replacing components by the time you factor in labour.

That you might be upgrading it later is irrelevant, nor is what you'd do with the bike replacement money.

whatwasmyname

Thanks guys. 

The GP I saw didn't want to start me on any physio treatment yet. They want me to give it a month of "rest" and Naproxen and see where we're at then. If it's not improving then physio is an option. I never thought of factoring in that if it came to it.

Also I never thought about that viewpoint Herzlos. Some folk I spoke to said as there's no obvious damage to the bike then I'm choosing to get it looked at, as in it's not something I have to do and could get by without doing that. My concern was coming down a hill at 40mph and finding out by going over the handlebars that it's not right. I wanted it checked over so those who are more in the know than I can say yes everything is fine as far as they can see. 
Though as you've said which I never really thought of - there could be hidden problems which don't show themselves until the wrong moment.

Herzlos

There's a whole host of things that are pretty easy repairs - damaged tyres, bent wheels, stretched cables.

The slightly more expensive things - bend cranks, gears, handlebars, etc.

Then there's the terminal stuff - bent frame, metal fatigue and so on. At £500 I'm assuming it's an aluminium bike so may not show any damage but won't be repairable if it does crack, and obviously if it fails in 6 months time due to existing damage you have no way to prove it.

If you'd hit a pot hole and come off I'd have recommended getting it checked and repaired, but if a car hit it coming out of a junction I'd be inclined to just play it safe especially if you're not that confident with bike mechanicals and knowing what exactly to look for.