Prudential only company to want probate.....why?

teachergirl

Sadly my husband passed away in the middle of February.     Sorry long post.
We had both made wills leaving each other as the executor and sole beneficiary of the estate. He had been a teacher, and the teachers pension required me to send a copy of the death certificate and a certified copy of my marriage certificate. Now a month later I have the money owed from them and what I will get in the future. The banks, credit cards, sky Bt everything else is completely sorted. Except for my dealings with the prudential. For a short period of time he paid into an teachers AVC with the prudential unfortunately they have been anything but helpful. 
Firstly they do not have a dedicated line to deal with bereavement. Which means you end up waiting at least 30 minutes every time you want to speak to someone on the phone. I first called them on the 21st February. They said they would send a form in the post.It hadn't arrived a week later so I phoned again. It was definitely sent so I waited and it arrived the next day. The letter asked for a copy of probate.
 I phoned on the 2nd and was put through to the wrong department and then I waited again for another operator. I asked why I needed probate and offered to send a copy of the will and the death certificate. I had phoned the probate office who confirmed I did not need probate as far as they were concerned. The operator took notes and said she would have to talk to the bereavement team and they would write to me. I asked if I could speak to them but was told no they were "back of house" , could they phone me, apparently not, nor could they email me they would send me a letter🤦🏼‍♀️
No letter had arrived by the 7th so I phoned again. The operator could not put me through to complaints but could help me. he told me no I did not need probate all I needed to do was send the death certificate so I did the same day.
 However on the 10th I got a letter which said as the money was going to be more than  £10000 I needed probate. I send a letter recorded delivery to Baroness Vadera (Chairman of the board) explaining the poor service I was receiving.
On the 22nd I received a cheque for £175 for the inconvenience I had been caused but nothing else. There was however a different phone number.
On the 23rd I phoned this different number...it was the wrong department. They put me through to a different department where the operator said she would have to speak to my husband if it wasn't my policy😢😡 She also could not put me through to a supervisor someone would call me back in 48hours😞 She phoned me back to say a letter was on its way........as the pay out would be more than 20000 I would have to get probate.
A quick look of reviews online show I am far from alone in my experience. 

What should I do now?  Probate will cost me money and be inconvenient and take weeks. Is there anything else I can do or do I just have to give in and get probate? Although in all honesty I am not confident they will even give me the money then. I just feel so fed up with them and the distress they are causing me.

Savvy_Sue

I am so sorry, both for your loss, and the grief you are being caused by this. 

However ... 

Some organisations do require probate before paying out sums over £X. Premium Bonds are famous for this - £X being quite a small amount with them. 

But I'd want to be sure whether this is coming to you as part of the estate, or whether the AVC with the Prudential was written 'in trust', to be paid outside the estate to a named beneficiary (ie you). From the correspondence received so far, is that clear to you? 

I may be completely wrong about this, maybe whatever the Prudential are holding is not that kind of thing at all, and maybe even if it is 'in trust' and outside the estate they are still entitled to ask you to obtain probate, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly. 

teachergirl

I think the answer to this is it is part of the estate . It is an "Additional Voluntary Contribution" which we both took out as an addition to the teachers pension. The original idea was that we could retire early with it but then the government changed the rules and so we both stopped paying. It could only be taken with the prudential

Marcon

teachergirl said:

I think the answer to this is it is part of the estate . It is an "Additional Voluntary Contribution" which we both took out as an addition to the teachers pension. The original idea was that we could retire early with it but then the government changed the rules and so we both stopped paying. It could only be taken with the prudential

AVCs aren't generally part of the estate and I don't understand why this one should be any different. Given your husband only died last month, dealing with this sort of carry on is the last thing you need.

Free, sympathetic and expert help is readily available, so don't go it alone. See https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/pensions-and-retirement/pension-problems

teachergirl

Thank you Marcon I will try and phone them later and see if they know about AVC's. His actual pension is sorted . In fact they were fantastic and very quick. 

msb1234

I feel your pain! My mum died mid February, and I’ve had no end of trouble from Lloyds Bank and the Teachers Pension service. Everyone else has provided a good service. My stepfather has advanced dementia and is in a home, but TPS won’t deal with me alone, as my mums executor. They want him to either speak to them or sign the relevant part of the form for his widow’s pension. The advisor I spoke to told me I’d need to get POA, and couldn’t understand that if he was competent enough to apply for a POA, he would have been competent enough to sign the TPS form! Her next suggestion was to apply to the Court of Protection which costs a fortune (he has no money) and takes months. All for a tiny pension that he’s entitled to! 

Lloyds Bank have excelled themselves in their incompetence. Mum and stepdad had a joint account with around £4k in. He also had a credit card with a small balance. The account is now solely in his name, he cannot access it due to his health, the credit card can’t be paid off so eventually Lloyds agreed to freeze it until such time s they had a medical note from his GP at which point they said they’re going to write off the debt. So far, so good.
today, I opened not 1 but 6 letters 2 addressed to mum and 4 addressed to stepdad. 2 we’re about his credit card, as expected. The other 4 were about their bank account, how it was £8k in arrears so had been frozen. The ones to my mum thanked her for phoning them about her debt, and have frozen the account for 30 days so she can find ways to pay it back. They ‘look forward to speaking to her before the 30 days is up’!
a lengthy phone call to the bereavement team - where I once again had to spend far too long going through all the security etc - were fruitless. They have no idea why these letters have been sent, the account doesn’t show that mum has died even!
it’s like a comedy of errors.

Keep_pedalling

msb1234 said:

I feel your pain! My mum died mid February,u and I’ve had no end of trouble from Lloyds Bank and the Teachers Pension service. Everyone else has provided a good service. My stepfather has advanced dementia and is in a home, but TPS won’t deal with me alone, as my mums executor. They want him to either speak to them or sign the relevant part of the form for his widow’s pension. The advisor I spoke to told me I’d need to get POA, and couldn’t understand that if he was competent enough to apply for a POA, he would have been competent enough to sign the TPS form! Her next suggestion was to apply to the Court of Protection which costs a fortune (he has no money) and takes months. All for a tiny pension that he’s entitled to! 

Lloyds Bank have excelled themselves in their incompetence. Mum and stepdad had a joint account with around £4k in. He also had a credit card with a small balance. The account is now solely in his name, he cannot access it due to his health, the credit card can’t be paid off so eventually Lloyds agreed to freeze it until such time s they had a medical note from his GP at which point they said they’re going to write off the debt. So far, so good.
today, I opened not 1 but 6 letters 2 addressed to mum and 4 addressed to stepdad. 2 we’re about his credit card, as expected. The other 4 were about their bank account, how it was £8k in arrears so had been frozen. The ones to my mum thanked her for phoning them about her debt, and have frozen the account for 30 days so she can find ways to pay it back. They ‘look forward to speaking to her before the 30 days is up’!
a lengthy phone call to the bereavement team - where I once again had to spend far too long going through all the security etc - were fruitless. They have no idea why these letters have been sent, the account doesn’t show that mum has died even!
it’s like a comedy of errors.

This is a rather different situation to the OP. Neither the pension nor the joint account form part of her inheritable estate, so being executor does not give you the authority act for your father in sorting this out. For that you need power of attorney or deputyship from the courts. It sounds like it is far to late to get the former, so the latter is you only option if you need to handle your father’s finances while he is in care. This is a longwinded and expensive process but it is crucial if he holds significant assets (does he own a house that now needs to be sold?).

if you don’t do this it is likely that the LA will do it as it will be the only way they can obtain his contribution to his care costs.

When incapacity strikes it can cause far more financial issues for your nearest and dearest than death, so as well as a will all adults should have lasting powers of attorney in place.

msb1234

My stepfather only owns 20% of the house - it was held as tenants in common. It has an outstanding mortgage too. So selling the house will not actually give him money to take him over the lower threshold for paying care home fees as its a cheap house. The cost of obtaining Deputyship will also erode into his inheritance, thus reducing even further any money he is left with. Selling the house wont therefore make any difference to who pays his care home fees. 

Keep_pedalling

msb1234 said:

My stepfather only owns 20% of the house - it was held as tenants in common. It has an outstanding mortgage too. So selling the house will not actually give him money to take him over the lower threshold for paying care home fees as its a cheap house. The cost of obtaining Deputyship will also erode into his inheritance, thus reducing even further any money he is left with. Selling the house wont therefore make any difference to who pays his care home fees. 

OK, but unless your mother had insurance to cover paying off the insurance, the house will still need selling to clear the mortgage and that can’t be done without someone holding deputyship for your SF.