Civil Enforcement - PCN after buying ticket

donutty22

iancowley said:

I'm not advising you to do this. But what I'd do is.....ignore it. That's just me though. If you were banged to rights I'd probably say pay it and move on. But you have a decent case.

You have all the evidence to back yourself up, they have ignored your appeals even though they seem quite sound. If they want to take this to court, let them take it to court, and waste their own money. 

They sound like the usual goons who use shady tactics and scare tactics to get people to part with their money. Even the name "Civil Enforcement" is intentionally scary.

You'll get a few letters in a row demanding money and threatening to take you to court. Each letter you recieve, the font for "WE WILL TAKE YOU TO COURT" will get bigger and bigger, the colour of the words a brighter RED each time. They will probably mention a groundbreaking case years ago where they took somebody to court and won! Hurrah for them!  They won't mention all the pushback these companies have gotten over their shady business practices. 

Then eventually the letters will stop.

You've made your appeal, and that should be the last contact. Don't let them build a case against you with further discourse. Make your one time appeal, make sure it's good, and then go radio silence. Let them prove why your appeal is incorrect, and why you should pay. They never do. They just reject.

I made that mistake when I went back and forth, and finally told them "I'll see you in court then" after they rejected my appeals without any good answers back. Although, it wasn't really a mistake, as nothing happened. The scary letters stopped after a couple more, and it fizzled out.

I had a pretty decent case where I stayed overlong at a retail park with a B&M, McDonalds, and a few other stores. The signs were tiny, off to the edges, unless I walked up to them, got on a ladder, squinted into a microscope you wouldn't know there was a time limit for customers. I didn't even go back after the fact to read the small print. Didn't bother.

I was a patron at McDonalds at a kids birthday party, went into B&M to pick up some stuff, and back again to McDonalds to buy a cup of tea as it was a long drive back home. I paid cash and card in each, but didn't keep the receipts for the cash spends.

So I was spending money the whole time, and using the stores during the stay. There shouldn't be a time limit on how long McDonalds accepts me to be a patron. I'm sure if it went to court McDonalds wouldn't be too pleased the car park company was trying to make me leave their premises, and stop spending money.

They just ignored my appeal and declared I MUST PAY!

I didn't, nothing happened.

The advice now isn't to ignore them and to beat them at POPLA stage and be done with it.

donutty22

Appeal updated. I have highlighted the newly added wording in grey. Let me know if this is ok.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WU6LAKtE-l3e5JNPFqP8veCCBhAh0Zv-/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for everyone's input.

KeithP

The last sentence of your point 1 -

In conclusion with regards to this point, I call into question the reliability of both CE Limited's records and their compliance with BPA CoP. I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance with the mandatory requirements of Paragraph 17 of the BPA CoP.

...should perhaps continue that sentence with a quote from para 17 of the BPA CoP stating that mandatory requirement.


Suggest you try and avoid links where possible. E.g. you could easily embed an image of the Supreme Court quote rather than hope that an assessor will follow your Imgur link.
Same with the Beavis sign, although in this case you are asking the assessor to compare signs, so it would be good to have the signs side by side in one image.
Your ebay link doesn't show what you were perhaps hoping to show.


Just a few pointers - no time to look further.

donutty22

KeithP said:

The last sentence of your point 1 -

In conclusion with regards to this point, I call into question the reliability of both CE Limited's records and their compliance with BPA CoP. I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance with the mandatory requirements of Paragraph 17 of the BPA CoP.

...should perhaps continue that sentence with a quote from para 17 of the BPA CoP stating that mandatory requirement.


Suggest you try and avoid links where possible. E.g. you could easily embed an image of the Supreme Court quote rather than hope that an assessor will follow your Imgur link.
Same with the Beavis sign, although in this case you are asking the assessor to compare signs, so it would be good to have the signs side by side in one image.
Your ebay link doesn't show what you were perhaps hoping to show.


Just a few pointers - no time to look further.

Thanks for the input, I will check through and amend it.

donutty22

eBay link removed and images added where possible.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WU6LAKtE-l3e5JNPFqP8veCCBhAh0Zv-/view?usp=sharing

I think it is ready to submit?

Coupon-mad

Yep, fill your boots.  Upload it under OTHER only.

donutty22

CEL have uploaded their evidence:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pcfx0OejWPqnhG86vQ-5iJPyCkgY0PvS/view?usp=sharing

I have looked at some other threads that have drafted their comments and I have the below, so far:
CE Limited have purposefully omitted the vehicle's registration from the list of payments on that day, as the ticket showing the registration, day, and time, from a CE Limited operated ticket machine in correlation with the registration, day, and time shown on the notice to keeper is clear proof that parking was paid for.

The letter purporting to be a contract has not been signed by the operator and the actual contract referred to in the letter has not been produced. As such, there is no proof CE Limited had a contract with the landowner at the time of the alleged event. The letter is also outdated with no expiration date.

Anything else that I should make sure I add?

Thanks.

Fruitcake

Rebut any points you made in your original appeal that have not been addressed by the PPC, stating that by not rebutting it they must agree with your point and therefore the appeal must be allowed.

Note that you only have 2000 characters to rebut.

donutty22

Hi all. The appeal was successful! 

Thank you to everyone who helped, I really appreciate your time!

Coupon-mad

Great news!