Civil Enforcement - PCN after buying ticket

donutty22

I have sent the newbies template, including proof of a parking ticket, it was rejected (shock) and I received a POPLA code. They are saying that the ticket was bought from the wrong machine, there is a machine at the bottom of the multistorey car park stairs and one inside the multistorey, the ticket was bought from the bottom where there is also an outside car park, I'm pretty sure both are operated by CE. The ticket was purchased for up to 4 hours, plus 2 hours are free and the total stay was below 4 hours, the VRM was required, was entered correctly and is on the ticket.

After asking a relative who lives close by to take some pictures, there are signs saying this machine is for the outside car park only, not sure how that was missed.

I have also complained to the local PM who said he would respond via snail mail (I did ask for an email reply), so see what he says and how long that takes.

I have seen in some other threads that they have requested a SAR, can I request that from CE for the machine?

Thanks.

Half_way

Who's car park is it?

donutty22

It’s a multi-storey. Civil Enforcement Ltd.

Coupon-mad

I think you will need the photos.  Where is this multi storey?  I don't know of one run by CEL.

donutty22

It’s in Sunbury on Thames. Multi-storey in yellow on image. M&S is below it but I’m not aware of them having anything to do with it.

Above machine the ticket was bought from:


Inside the multi-storey:

Coupon-mad

Haha, one sign's small print says you must pay within 10 mins of arrival and the other one says you can pay at any time before you leave.  Both say the latter in capitals.

One says no charge for the first two hours and the other one charges.

What ambiguous rubbish!

There are 2 different site codes but nothing to alert you to this (how would you know which bays/storey each site code covers and why would a driver think they were different?).

There's nothing to tell the reader that the listed terms only relate to the ground floor spaces and that they must instead seek out other signage, if parked in another storey of this car park, and there are no surface markings nor barrier delineation at all.  It's all set up by CEL as a trap, IMHO.  It's two car parks made to look like it's one.

You should win this at POPLA if you explain the above and use your photos.

donutty22

There is a sign near to the machine at the bottom, but I didn’t see it.

I’m not sure exactly where it is as this is the image I was sent by my relative:

Coupon-mad

Just don't use this photo in your POPLA appeal.  Use the others.

Fruitcake

Well, all parking has to be done on a surface. 

Starpark is a trading name of CEL, and both signs say the site is managed by CEL.

The sign inside the multi-storey car park says Pay at Machine. It doesn't warn motorists that it must only be a machine inside the multi-storey car park.

donutty22

This is what I have put together from other POPLA appeals. Please let me know if there is anything I should add or remove.

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WU6LAKtE-l3e5JNPFqP8veCCBhAh0Zv-/view?usp=sharing

Coupon-mad

Looks fine to me.

You could make it clear in the intro that this is a multi storey car park operated by CEL and they seem to have different signs on the (two? more?) different storeys but there is no warning of this, so a driver looking for the nearest pay and display machine as they walk down the ramps on foot, is immediately set up to fall, if they pay at the 'wrong' machine.  Even when paying the right amount for the right car, which the driver did.