MSE News: Martin Lewis: Why your energy bill might be going up by MORE than 54%

Ultrasonic

Undisputedtruth said:
 Again, your admission that you haven't bothered to check my sums only goes to show you were intent of being a pendantic on the definition of a price cap. 

By saying I hadn't checked your sums I meant I was trusting you were correct.

Apologies if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say but I'm certain I wasn't the only one. 

Undisputedtruth

QrizB said:

Your argument seems to be "so long as you ignore the reality of the situation and instead use my version, my calculations are correct".

Ofgem's cap calculations include elements for unit price and standing charge, for electricity and gas. The headline cap (for an average consumer in an average region) was £1277 and is now £1971, an increase of £693 which is 54%.

Does this mean that any individual element of the bill is increasing by 54%? No.

Does this mean your specific bill will increase by 54%? No.

I'm more of a mathematical person so using headline figures is meaningless for me and really geared for those not good at maths. 

I like to work from the figures up. Similarly, I'm not a great a great fan of energy saving rating labelling scheme. Again it's scheme designed to be simplistic but not very informative for me. Therefore I prefer to work out the energy consumption using a combination of Physics formulae and cost of energy in Kilowatts per hour.

QrizB

Undisputedtruth said:

QrizB said:

Your argument seems to be "so long as you ignore the reality of the situation and instead use my version, my calculations are correct".

Ofgem's cap calculations include elements for unit price and standing charge, for electricity and gas. The headline cap (for an average consumer in an average region) was £1277 and is now £1971, an increase of £693 which is 54%.

Does this mean that any individual element of the bill is increasing by 54%? No.

Does this mean your specific bill will increase by 54%? No.

I'm more of a mathematical person so using headline figures is meaningless for me and really geared for those not good at maths. 
I like to work from the figures up.

OK, let's look at your figures.

Undisputedtruth said:

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website.

For a dual-fuel DD-payment customer, and using national average values:

• electricity is going from 20.8p/kWh to 28.34p/kWh, an increase of 36%
• gas is going from 4.07p/kWh to 7.37p/kWh, an increase of 81%
  

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

That statement isn't correct. 54% is the increase from £1277 to £1971, and both those numbers include the standing charges.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges.

That statement isn't correct either, for the same reason.

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis.

Practically all mains gas customers also have electricity. The reverse is not true. Any discussion of "energy bills" should include electricity and so the 54% headline figure is the most appropriate to use.

Anne8584

With E.ON Next, my electric went from 21.607p per kwh to 28.41p, standing charge 25.663p to 51.63p
gas went from 4.197p per kwh to 7.48p, standing charge 26.123p to 27.22p
Price increase £910.65, which is approx. 54% increase in the cost on the standard variable tariff. The standing charge for electric appears to be above the price cap, has anyone else experienced this? I can't find anything online that justifies this. 

polymaff

Anne8584 said:

With E.ON Next, my electric went from 21.607p per kwh to 28.41p, standing charge 25.663p to 51.63p
gas went from 4.197p per kwh to 7.48p, standing charge 26.123p to 27.22p
Price increase £910.65, which is approx. 54% increase in the cost on the standard variable tariff. The standing charge for electric appears to be above the price cap, has anyone else experienced this? I can't find anything online that justifies this. 

See the first reply.

bumlard

Ultrasonic said:

bumlard said:

My EON Next rate has gone up today from 22.649 day rate and 11.956p night rate to 27.63 for both. The standing charge is up from 22.717 to 44.75 per day.

Most of my usage is on the night rate so the bulk of my costs have more than doubled. Quite a difference to 54 percent average.

How come there is no difference between night rate and day rate? 

You should still have different day and night rates. Are you certain you don't?

I am logging into my account and under the Tariffs section it now has the same 27.63 for both night and day rate. a few days ago it had the old rates in but since the 1st uplift yes they're both the same. I only have electricity here no gas.

HUMBUG

Because our previous fixed rate has now come to an end here is the increase for myself and my elderly father 91.

My monthly direct debit with So Energy goes up from £85.81 to £137.22  ( 60% increase)

My father monthly direct debit with So Energy goes up from £151 to £332  ( 120% increase). 

His fuel bills are astronomical as he cannot stand the cold because he is ill and frail. I've worked out that my father will not have enough income to cover all his bills and food in the coming year but at least he has us to help him . Other older people living on their state pensions (who are alone) and the poorest will be in terrible trouble and I can foresee a massive increase in deaths next winter unless the Govt intervene . I'm already hearing about mass demonstrations across the country and this may be the the only way to force this Government to act asap to protect the most vulnerable in our society.

Undisputedtruth

QrizB said:

For a dual-fuel DD-payment customer, and using national average values: electricity is going from 20.8p/kWh to 28.34p/kWh, an increase of 36% gas is going from 4.07p/kWh to 7.37p/kWh, an increase of 81%.

Those figures are different to the ones I used from the Ofgem website. So you haven't proven me wrong here. Different figures will produce different results. We both know that.

 Using the figures from the Ofgem website: Electricity 21p per kWh to 28p kWh represents a 33 per increase. Gas 4p kWh to 7p per kWh represents a 75 per cent increase. Source: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you And before you say it, I already know there will be regional variance in the prices. But I'm perfectly happy to accept that gas prices have risen by 80 per cent.

QrizB said:

That statement isn't correct. 54% is the increase from £1277 to £1971, and both those numbers include the standing charges.

As I said before, headline figures means nothing to me unless the costs are broken down to their barest component. The headline doesn't do that. Sorry if you haven't understood my original point.

QrizB said:

Practically all mains gas customers also have electricity. The reverse is not true. Any discussion of "energy bills" should include electricity and so the 54% headline figure is the most appropriate to use.

No, using the 54 per cent figure only diminished the effects of the gas bill rise. You've already admitted that the unit of gas has risen by 80 per cent.

The problem is that some people, including Martin Lewis, believed gas bill has risen by 54 per cent when in reality this figure is closer to 80 per cent.

 When you hear people making the choice between heating their home and eating then saying their gas bill has risen by 54 per cent is doing a disservice to them. Particularly as gas bills are often higher than electricity in monetary terms.

 TLDR: There is nothing in your post that has proven me wrong.

QrizB

Undisputedtruth said:

 TLDR: There is nothing in your post that has proven me wrong.

I'd assumed from your user name that you were interested in "the truth". I was evidently mistaken and won't trouble you again.

Undisputedtruth

QrizB said:

Undisputedtruth said:

 TLDR: There is nothing in your post that has proven me wrong.

I'd assumed from your user name that you were interested in "the truth". I was evidently mistaken and won't trouble you again.

The only truth that mattered is whether Martin Lewis had understood that the default standard variable gas tariff had risen by an average of 80 per cent.