MSE News: Martin Lewis: Why your energy bill might be going up by MORE than 54%

Undisputedtruth

I don't believe Martin Lewis have fully understood the price cap after reading his blog. 

The real scandal of the price cap is how Ofgem has used the average percentages to mask the true scale of the price increase.

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website. 

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges. 

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis. 

Hopefully Martin will read this post and act accordingly. He's the most important figurehead when championing the cause for consumers.

Ultrasonic

Undisputedtruth said:

I don't believe Martin Lewis have fully understood the price cap after reading his blog. 

The real scandal of the price cap is how Ofgem has used the average percentages to mask the true scale of the price increase.

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website. 

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges. 

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis. 

Hopefully Martin will read this post and act accordingly. He's the most important figurehead when championing the cause for consumers.

No, you've got a few things wrong there. Standing charges are included and the 54% figure comes from OFGEM numbers:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/price-cap-increase-ps693-april

bumlard

My EON Next rate has gone up today from 22.649 day rate and 11.956p night rate to 27.63 for both. The standing charge is up from 22.717 to 44.75 per day.

Most of my usage is on the night rate so the bulk of my costs have more than doubled. Quite a difference to 54 percent average.

How come there is no difference between night rate and day rate? 

Ultrasonic

bumlard said:

My EON Next rate has gone up today from 22.649 day rate and 11.956p night rate to 27.63 for both. The standing charge is up from 22.717 to 44.75 per day.

Most of my usage is on the night rate so the bulk of my costs have more than doubled. Quite a difference to 54 percent average.

How come there is no difference between night rate and day rate? 

You should still have different day and night rates. Are you certain you don't?

Undisputedtruth

Ultrasonic said:

Undisputedtruth said:

I don't believe Martin Lewis have fully understood the price cap after reading his blog. 

The real scandal of the price cap is how Ofgem has used the average percentages to mask the true scale of the price increase.

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website. 

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges. 

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis. 

Hopefully Martin will read this post and act accordingly. He's the most important figurehead when championing the cause for consumers.

No, you've got a few things wrong there. Standing charges are included and the 54% figure comes from OFGEM numbers:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/price-cap-increase-ps693-april

Thanks Ultransonic. I've double checked my post and I've clearly stated that I haven't taken into account standing charge increase. 

I took the figures from here:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

To get the percentage figuresI simply done the calculation for each unit of energy only as these often represents the bulk of the bill.

Just to reiterate, the figures provided and methodology are 100 per cent correct. 

Ultrasonic

Undisputedtruth said:

Ultrasonic said:

Undisputedtruth said:

I don't believe Martin Lewis have fully understood the price cap after reading his blog. 

The real scandal of the price cap is how Ofgem has used the average percentages to mask the true scale of the price increase.

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website. 

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges. 

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis. 

Hopefully Martin will read this post and act accordingly. He's the most important figurehead when championing the cause for consumers.

No, you've got a few things wrong there. Standing charges are included and the 54% figure comes from OFGEM numbers:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/price-cap-increase-ps693-april

Thanks Ultransonic. I've double checked my post and I've clearly stated that I haven't taken into account standing charge increase. 

I took the figures from here:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

To get the percentage figuresI simply done the calculation for each unit of energy only as these often represents the bulk of the bill.

Just to reiterate, the figures provided and methodology are 100 per cent correct. 

No, you're wrong here. I'm not sure what you think your link proves but mine is the relevant one. Did you read it?

Re. the standing charge your point appeared to be that the 54% figure was flawed because it doesn't factor in increases in this. The truth is that the 54% figure does factor in the increase in standing charges.

Undisputedtruth

Ultrasonic said:

Undisputedtruth said:

Ultrasonic said:

Undisputedtruth said:

I don't believe Martin Lewis have fully understood the price cap after reading his blog. 

The real scandal of the price cap is how Ofgem has used the average percentages to mask the true scale of the price increase.

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website. 

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges. 

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis. 

Hopefully Martin will read this post and act accordingly. He's the most important figurehead when championing the cause for consumers.

No, you've got a few things wrong there. Standing charges are included and the 54% figure comes from OFGEM numbers:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/price-cap-increase-ps693-april

Thanks Ultransonic. I've double checked my post and I've clearly stated that I haven't taken into account standing charge increase. 

I took the figures from here:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

To get the percentage figuresI simply done the calculation for each unit of energy only as these often represents the bulk of the bill.

Just to reiterate, the figures provided and methodology are 100 per cent correct. 

No, you're wrong here. I'm not sure what you think your link proves but mine is the relevant one. Did you read it?

Re. the standing charge your point appeared to be that the 54% figure was flawed because it doesn't factor in increases in this. The truth is that the 54% figure does factor in the increase in standing charges.

Ultrasonic said:

No, you're wrong here. I'm not sure what you think your link proves but mine is the relevant one. Did you read it?

Re. the standing charge your point appeared to be that the 54% figure was flawed because it doesn't factor in increases in this. The truth is that the 54% figure does factor in the increase in standing charges.

I've read your link and fully understand it. However, your point is pretty pointless because the 'real Elephant in the Room' is that the bulk of the bill will come from the cost of unit energy.

I've already declared in previous posts that I haven't factored in the standing charges. You chose to ignore that. Instead you wanted to act as a pendantist without recognising the points made in my posts.

You can browbeat as much as you want. It doesn't change the narrative that the bulk of the price increase of gas bills will come from the individual unit price unless your energy usage is on low side.

QrizB

Undisputedtruth said:

I've read your link and fully understand it. However, your point is pretty pointless because the 'real Elephant in the Room' is that the bulk of the bill will come from the cost of unit energy.

I've already declared in previous posts that I haven't factored in the standing charges. You chose to ignore that. Instead you wanted to act as a pendantist without recognising the points made in my posts.
You can browbeat as much as you want. It doesn't change the narrative that the bulk of the price increase of gas bills will come from the individual unit price unless your energy usage is on low side.

Your argument seems to be "so long as you ignore the reality of the situation and instead use my version, my calculations are correct".

Ofgem's cap calculations include elements for unit price and standing charge, for electricity and gas. The headline cap (for an average consumer in an average region) was £1277 and is now £1971, an increase of £693 which is 54%.

Does this mean that any individual element of the bill is increasing by 54%? No.

Does this mean your specific bill will increase by 54%? No.

Ultrasonic

Undisputedtruth said:

Ultrasonic said:

Undisputedtruth said:

Ultrasonic said:

Undisputedtruth said:

I don't believe Martin Lewis have fully understood the price cap after reading his blog. 

The real scandal of the price cap is how Ofgem has used the average percentages to mask the true scale of the price increase.

The price caps for electricity and gas are 33 per cent  and 75 per cent  respectively according to my research on the Ofgem website. 

The 54 per cent  figure is derived from the average of 33 per cent  & 75 per cent for their respective energy. Most gas bills are higher than electricity on the basis that gas is mainly used to heat the home so your energy bill wouldn't increase by 54% in a linear way.

Ths 54 per cent  figure does not include rises from standing charges. 

The true scale of this season's gas energy cap is closer to 80 per cent. Discorse on the energy bills needs to be done in relation to an 80 per cent basis if we're to have an helpful solution on what is effectively an energy crisis. 

Hopefully Martin will read this post and act accordingly. He's the most important figurehead when championing the cause for consumers.

No, you've got a few things wrong there. Standing charges are included and the 54% figure comes from OFGEM numbers:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/price-cap-increase-ps693-april

Thanks Ultransonic. I've double checked my post and I've clearly stated that I haven't taken into account standing charge increase. 

I took the figures from here:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/check-if-energy-price-cap-affects-you

To get the percentage figuresI simply done the calculation for each unit of energy only as these often represents the bulk of the bill.

Just to reiterate, the figures provided and methodology are 100 per cent correct. 

No, you're wrong here. I'm not sure what you think your link proves but mine is the relevant one. Did you read it?

Re. the standing charge your point appeared to be that the 54% figure was flawed because it doesn't factor in increases in this. The truth is that the 54% figure does factor in the increase in standing charges.

Ultrasonic said:

No, you're wrong here. I'm not sure what you think your link proves but mine is the relevant one. Did you read it?

Re. the standing charge your point appeared to be that the 54% figure was flawed because it doesn't factor in increases in this. The truth is that the 54% figure does factor in the increase in standing charges.

I've read your link and fully understand it. However, your point is pretty pointless because the 'real Elephant in the Room' is that the bulk of the bill will come from the cost of unit energy.

I've already declared in previous posts that I haven't factored in the standing charges. You chose to ignore that. Instead you wanted to act as a pendantist without recognising the points made in my posts.

You can browbeat as much as you want. It doesn't change the narrative that the bulk of the price increase of gas bills will come from the individual unit price unless your energy usage is on low side.

No, your original point was that Martin Lewis had made a mistake that you were wanting to see corrected, whereas I have explained that this is not the case. Taking the time to explain where you are wrong is not being pedantic. 

You have either come up with or read elsewhere of an alternative calculation method that happens to give a 54% figure (not that I've checked your sums). This is not the reason that Martin Lewis and others have used it though.

Undisputedtruth

Ultrasonic said:

No, your original point was that Martin Lewis had made a mistake that you were wanting to see corrected, whereas I have explained that this is not the case. Taking the time to explain where you are wrong is not being pedantic. 

You have either come up with or read elsewhere of an alternative calculation method that happens to give a 54% figure (not that I've checked your sums). This is not the reason that Martin Lewis and others have used it though.

That's the problem you haven't fully understood the points made in my posts and yet you are splitting hairs on the definition of price caps. My argument was never about the definition of price caps rather than the impact of the unit cost of gas.

Again, another example where you haven't when my posts. I haven't said Martin Lewis has made a mistake; I simply said I didn't think he fully understood the price caps. Mistake and understood are entirely different words.

I think I'm going to take a break from having a discussion with you from now. It is evident that the points made in my post have been taken the wrong way by your interpretation. Again, your admission that you haven't bothered to check my sums only goes to show you were intent of being a pendantic on the definition of a price cap.