Vantage Point PCN - overstayed grace period

Raf_3

I've seen there are a lot of threads on here about Vantage Point in Brighton and One Parking Solution. 

I've received a PCN from OPS for staying in their car park for 35 minutes without a ticket. I got this a week ago and have not yet responded.

In my mind, I'm in the right. But I would think that, wouldn't I? I'd really appreciate an objective view of whether there's a reasonable chance of success in appeal, or whether I should chalk this up to experience.

Short version - car park's payment app didn't work, I had no coins; therefore there was no method of payment available to me.

Longer version...
I was running late to get my young kids to a birthday party. So I planned to park in a car park I've occasionally used before and pay for the ticket on the app as I walked into town. As I say, I'd used this car park before, so assumed it would be no problem

But - the app provider has changed since I last parked there (was Just Park, now it's PopPay). I created an account (will be a record of this) but then found the app has no way of searching for a car park from its list - you have to know the car park's ID number. That ID is listed in the car park but I had already walked a few minutes away by this point. 

I decided to get my kids to the party on time, rather than drag them back to the car park. I phoned the parking firm on the number on the PopPay app, to see if they could tell me the car park code. I just got an answer machine as they're closed on weekends.

With kids dropped off, I returned to the car park to buy the ticket. Put all the details in the app, went to complete payment and...nothing. The app doesn't work - at least it doesn't on my phone anyway. I tried about five times. Eventually gave up. The machine takes coins only - I had none, so I left and parked down the road (have a card payment record showing this).

Emailed PopPay the next day from the email address associated with the account I had created, to advise them the app had been broken when I tried to use it.

So, I feel I tried everything within reason to pay for parking there. But, on the other hand, I did stay there for 35 minutes and I didn't go get coins from somewhere to pay that way instead. Should I just be settling this while it's cheaper - or is an appeal likely to have any legs?  

Coupon-mad

Don't use that car park again.  I am fairly local and you never need to park there when in Brighton.  Horrible company, run by some ex-clampers.  Exposed in the National press several times and in the Argus.

Never use any OPS car park.  They will sue you.

Boycott them and tell your friends, and email a complaint to the landowner whose name and email is on here somewhere.

95Rollers

I recently went to court for a PCN at this car park and their case against me was dismissed.  The judge said the terms were unfair and accepted that there was a frustration of contract. I'm still waiting for my copy of the judgement.

My circumstances were fairly similar - mine was that I made 2 trips to carpark within a 23 minute window. I drove in, waited for a space then left as none had freed up so I went to look elsewhere. I then returned, machine wouldn't take my coins, couldnt get a phone signal so calling the numbers and accessing the App was a no go so I read the T&C's sign in its entirety which took 10 mins then drove out. 

So this presented the issue of Frustration of contract.  

The App (Pap Pay) is One Parking Solutions own app so I'm not surprised it's a load of crap and didn't work - maybe by design!?!  

As soon as uou realised it didn't work you've got back to the carpark to move your vehicle out of there.  Seems like you acted in good faith. 

Read through ALL the other Vantage Point threads for case similarities. A couple of cases were Cancelled by contacting the landowner, a couple were lost by them in court, another few were discontinued at the 11th hour and one is still ongoing.

Thete is a forum user called @fishsoup and your case bears a lot of similarities to their case - link below.  This was discontinued on the day of the court case. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6250903/ops-vantage-point#latest

Have a read through that plus the other ones for similar and pick out key points, but firstly speak to the landowner.  I will send you some information later via DM when I'm less busy.

Raf_3

95Rollers said:

I recently went to court for a PCN at this car park and their case against me was dismissed.  The judge said the terms were unfair and accepted that there was a frustration of contract. I'm still waiting for my copy of the judgement.

My circumstances were fairly similar - mine was that I made 2 trips to carpark within a 23 minute window. I drove in, waited for a space then left as none had freed up so I went to look elsewhere. I then returned, machine wouldn't take my coins, couldnt get a phone signal so calling the numbers and accessing the App was a no go so I read the T&C's sign in its entirety which took 10 mins then drove out. 

So this presented the issue of Frustration of contract.  

The App (Pap Pay) is One Parking Solutions own app so I'm not surprised it's a load of crap and didn't work - maybe by design!?!  

As soon as uou realised it didn't work you've got back to the carpark to move your vehicle out of there.  Seems like you acted in good faith. 

Read through ALL the other Vantage Point threads for case similarities. A couple of cases were Cancelled by contacting the landowner, a couple were lost by them in court, another few were discontinued at the 11th hour and one is still ongoing.

Thete is a forum user called @fishsoup and your case bears a lot of similarities to their case - link below.  This was discontinued on the day of the court case. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6250903/ops-vantage-point#latest

Have a read through that plus the other ones for similar and pick out key points, but firstly speak to the landowner.  I will send you some information later via DM when I'm less busy.

This is great - thanks so much. Will take a good look through this evening.

ParkingMad

Here are some photos of the upper (open-air) level of this car park. 

They were taken in 2020 when the JustPark app was in use. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/14n-qRLtHpMUdHMmjbTB4tLetXkDeilTd?usp=sharing&fbclid=IwAR0beYup9J55DaFBbiI6eLytB9QpDAIqkHFwNTj2YbzogTrg5sWqxA-15q8

The Worthing MP Tim Loughton said this in a debate about the Parking Code of Practice-

Tim Loughton 

(East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)

Does my right hon. Friend agree with my frustration—I have had lots of cases in Worthing—that people legitimately try to pay at the machines and the machines do not work? They try and ring a number, and that does not work and it is so complicated. Or they have to download an app. The average resident of Worthing does not have apps. If the equipment does not work, there should be no basis on which the charge should go through. Does he agree that there should be a system like that?

Sir Greg Knight 

If there are a number of payment machines and one of them is not working, that is not an excuse, but if there is only one machine or all the machines are out of order, that ought to be a perfect defence. The company operating the car park has in effect invited the motorist on to the car park to park the car on payment of a fee, and if it is not going to facilitate payment, it should not be able to extract a penalty. Rip-offs from car park cowboys must stop. Most parking operators have nothing to fear from the Bill, but we must stop unscrupulous operators who are undermining the whole sector with their bad practices.

95Rollers

I've emailed the court requesting a copy of the judgment form.  So hopefully I'll have this soon as it has been 2 weeks now.

OPS won't let it go. See if you can get the landowner to cancel it.  Do you need their details? If so let me know. Plan A is the best option.  It has worked for some motorists. 

If that doesn't work then unfortunately OPS are unlikely to let it go. They will pursue it to court. One of their directors was featured in the mainstream media unabashedly boasting that they will pay the money and use the court as a tool to make people pay!  So it will be a long ride.  But don't fear it as they lose the vast majority of their small claims court cases and often last minute discontinue.  

I am happy to share what I have regarding this even though my case was different, there are a lot of similarities. So if you need anything hit me up via PM.

EDIT - just added!

I've had a look via Google Street View and it still has the JustPark sign next to machine on there.  Was the JustPark sign up still? I'd advise to return to the area - park on Street outside and take some more up to date pictures especially with signs.

Its common knowledge that you can't get a decent phone/ signal in the location. 

Also get some screen shots of thr app and the fact that this location isn't/ wasn't listed before they correct the issue.