Purchased house with subsidence

saganaki20

Good evening,

Pretty much as the title says.. sorry for the essay. 

Last year I found myself separated and going through a house sale and purchasing a new one quite suddenly. With prices realistically out of my league in all of my county, in desperation I purchased a small terraced house (the only one I could afford). The money was made up from the sale of my old property 25% and savings of 25% and a mortgage for 50%. I suppose this is why bank didn’t insist on a survey. 

Due to being desperate to find somewhere that I could afford, I opted to not have a survey. Yes, I know….

I viewed the property twice and being completely honest, there is no one to blame but myself. I should have realised what was going on. The seller never tried to hide it, I just didn’t see it. The seller did tick to say no structural defects on the forms, but anyone with half a brain would notice it (me excluded clearly!) 

Since moving in (in fact day of - one of the moving in helpers dropped casually into conversation ‘that’s a bloody big crack outside the bathroom door, isn’t it?’) I’ve noted the 5 foot long, 1 inch wide crack in the hallway upstairs and the sloping floors in bathroom and kitchen, the ‘stretched’ wallpaper effect etc. How I didn’t see it before, I will never know. 

I’ve had a trusted general builder to look around and he got straight in the loft and disappeared into the rafters, he showed me the photos afterwards where you can see into next doors loft. It’s a full brick width gap up there. My original house is 100 years old, the 2 story extension that is the bathroom and kitchen is around 50 years old and is now falling away from the main structure of the original house. He did say he suspects it’s old movement, owing to cobwebs and dust and debris build up. 

I suppose my main question is - what do I do now? 

I’ve had various responses from others ranging from claim on the insurance, to rent it out all - to cover it up and sell it.

I understand if I claim from insurance, it’s very hard to mortgage and very difficult and expensive to insure? 

I have no desire to be a landlord realistically however I have heard of let to buy mortgages so perhaps this could be an option? 

I would never do what someone has done to me, and sell a house with this issue without disclosing it, so this isn’t an option. 

Whatever happens, the issue has to be fixed so I was just wondering if there were other options to solve this without going down the insurance route - for example, can I have the whole old extension removed, new proper adequate foundations put in, and then rebuilt entirely, would I then still have to declare it? 

I’ve got a feeling the answer is yes. 

Please take it easy on the answers, I should have known better and I just hope that anyone who was doubting getting a survey reads this - and decides to get one. Best money you’ll ever spend! I will never ever buy a house again without one!

Many thanks in advance! 

Sunsaru

I don't think you do actually.

What work you do to your house is up to you so if you decide to 'remodel' and take the extension down and replace who's to know the real reason why? You'll probably have to apply for planning permission etc and get it built properly but I don't see why you would have to declare it.

I could be wrong though.

waribai

From my understanding, once you have detected subsidence and it has been confirmed by a surveyor, you need to declare it on building insurance applications and in the particulars of any future house sale. 
Unless the previous owner had a survey undertaken, they arguably could plead ignorance.
You need a structural engineer to assess the issue and take it from there. Subsidence isn't the  party pooper it used to be. Provided you get it repaired correctly, insurance companies won't necessarily go running for the hills. 

HampshireH

I am not a Specialist in this field.

But can't you look to underpin it rather than knock it all down and rebuild it?

Definitely get a surveyor to look at it and provide a proper report before you start planning a resolution.

Least that way your expenses are in the right place, rather than forking out for works which may not be top priority.

eddddy

Builders typically aren't experts in this kind of thing. As others say, you should get the opinion of a specialist structural engineer.

Depending on what's causing the movement, it may not be a massive job to fix.

For example, it may be clay soil that's shrinking because of nearby trees. So pruning the trees might stop further movement. Or it may be sandy soil that's being washed away because of leaking gutters or leaking underground pipes.

Doozergirl

Your first step is a structural
engineer, and hopefully one who is pragmatic enough to discuss potential options with you and the financial ramifications of each. 

How big is the extension?  Could you make something more of it if it were rebuilt with bigger spaces and improve the value?  Otherwise remedial work is probably your best answer.   

Not sure where you are but I could recommend a structural engineer who is based near Birmingham but does travel.  We like him because he will
always talk through potential ideas and ramifications with our clients.   

Bigphil1474

OP, we had subsidence in 2010, took about 2 years to get it finally fixed - they monitored for at least a year to make sure it had stopped moving. We were with the PRU, and there was an excess of £1k on the insurance policy for subsidence. They ended up strapping the front of the house to the sides internally (mid terrace), as well as having to replaster upstairs and downstairs inside, replace the bay window and make good the bay - quite a lot of work, somewhere in the region of £20k. Didn't help that we had old asbestos containing artex in the main bedroom and living room, so both had to be stripped back to brick. Fortunately the assessor calculated it would cost £1,500 to redecorate afterwards, so we took £500 and did it ourselves and no excess to pay. 

In terms of insurance, it did go up - in 2010 we were paying c. £350 a year B&C, last year it was about £600 even after changing the voluntary excess from £0 to £300. We were told that it would take about 10 years for the insurance prices to start coming down - this year our renewal price was around £400. We stayed with PRU as they were the best price we could find anyway - presumably new insurers didn't want to take the risk. 

The subsidence was officially caused by a broken drain in next doors garden belonging to the water board - although the assessor did suggest that we rapidly disposed of the bush my OH had planted in the front garden many years ago that had grown quite large a couple of feet from the drain and the bay window, before he came back to take his photos. 

bouicca21

I doubt insurance will cover pre-existing problems.

FTBNoIdea

Hi, is it confirmed subsidence? No more ongoing movement would mean settlement probably. I had a structural engineer around for a sizeable crack in the bedroom corner following from ceilong to floor but he put it down to be previous movement and no more..? 

saganaki20

Thank you so much all!

I understood that the minute the structural engineer writes his report, is when it’s publicly available? Ie, I couldn’t ‘undo this’ - and insurance companies could see this for years to come, even if I have had the remedial works completed without claiming on the insurance, have I got this wrong? 

The other issues are, I am on a hill, in a previous coal mining area. (I know right, how could I not notice!!)

I’m in Kent, sadly quite far from Birmingham as I would very much welcome the advise from someone recommend by Doozer!

My floor plan show below, not sure why the 2 images aren’t syncing up but the kitchen is directly above the bathroom. So you can see a fairly small size extension; ignore the ‘garden room’ this is a “shared conservatory’ with next door. When I moved in I had to replace the floor joists and flooring immediately as I couldn’t get the washing machine in as the floor had given way due to the leak in the roof adjoining the main house.

Thank you!

ProDave

I would do nothing straight away.  The first thing you want to establish, is is it still moving or has the movement stopped?  you do that by just monitoring all the gaps to see if they are actually widening or not.