No Rapid LFTs available?

jimi_man

In an ideal world no-one would be ill, however we don't live in that world and people are ill all the time. The point remains that for the vast majority of people, Covid is a (now) very mild and trifling inconvenience however there are a very small minority of people such as mentioned above, who suffer more than most. Vulnerable and high risk groups existed prior to Covid and will continue to exist after it. The point about getting on with life is quite true, however for high risk groups further safeguards still need to be implemented. They still would need to test and free tests should really be provided for them (and/or their partners/carers) and they will always need to take further precautions. 

I totally agree that we need to move on however there is definitely a middle ground. 

Maybe there should be local groups around the country set up for donating unwanted tests? From a personal point of view in our house, because of many work related tests being provided, we have boxes and boxes of the things stored, probably in excess of 100 tests and I don't imagine we are particularly unique. As long as they are within the use by date then I'm sure people would be happy to donate a test or two. We rarely use them now, other than a quick check before visiting elderly parents or before a fit to fly test (to check if it's worth paying for it).

katejo

silvercar said:

soolin said:

WhoopsIDidItAgainITrolledWithYourHeart said:

unforeseen said:

WhoopsIDidItAgainITrolledWithYourHeart said:

 said:

 said:

 said:

As part of the Government “Living with Covid” strategy, access to FREE tests is ending 1 April for most people in England - so you need to find somewhere before then . 

No, you don't.

You need to stop obsessing over COVID and get on with your life.

There are more people infected with it than at any point in the pandemic, and there are decreasing numbers on mechanical ventilators.

The vast majority will get a mild cold and that's it, I know because I had the exact same symptoms last week.

Unfortunately for some, I didn't die.

What about those in the high risk groups? Immunocompromised etc? They have a genuine worry. The good news is that, from my experience, we seem to be flagged on the system and don't have a problem ordering LFTs. 
The vast majority may only have mild cold symptoms but the last time I caught a cold, which for me would normally be just sniffles & a sore throat, it laid me out for 3 days because I am now immuno compromised.  My wife caught covid 3 weeks ago and she said it was like a heavy (not mild) cold.
So I would rather carry on testing as that gets me the anti-virals sooner rather than later and will hopefully keep me out of hospital. 

What about them?

Why should every person who isn't immunocompromised or in a high-risk group, throw their lives away to protect a small minority?

Is this the world we've gotten to, the tyranny of the minority? "You must wear masks and stick things up your noses every day to protect me because protecting me is more important than you having a life!"

No, YOU wear a mask, YOU stick things up your nose and YOU avoid risky situations if your health situation requires it.

If you are immunocompromised, take the same steps you did pre-COVID.  It's not that difficult.  But you can't expect the rest of the world to stop you from dying.  That is, unfortunately, your problem.

You missed the point. 
I was not advocating everybody stay masked etc. I was pointing out that we would be hit harder when catching it and a continuation of free LFTs for us would help by identifying it earlier and getting the antiviral treatment in a timely manner. 

How you got "You must wear masks and stick things up your noses every day to protect me because protecting me is more important than you having a life!"  from my post is totally baffling

Immunocompromised people still have access to free LFTs, or did you not get that memo, even though it was made very clear in all mainstream media?

I suspect there are going to be a number of people that believe themselves to be eligible, but don't actually fit the new criteria. I know of several people who were designated CEV during the pandemic, food parcels being delivered etc, but are not immuno suppressed so will not qualify under the latest rules. If someone is already worried then reading the finer points of the news might not be their first thought.

I'm also not sure exactly what help a LFT will be, if someone feels ill and has health issues that means C19 might be very dangerous then they should speak to their GP. With the general population not testing then it is more likely that they will be exposed to C19 at some point without knowing it, and those who are worried need to decide whether they will continue to isolate as far as posisble without Government support, or just take as many reasonable precautions as they can and get on with things.

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

Except that it often takes until about day 4/5 of the 'cold symptoms' to actually test positive. I had 2 negative PCR's and several negative/very faintly positive LTF's spread over 5 days before I got a clear positive. By that time I may have been past the infectious period. People will do 1 test at the beginning and assume it is just a cold if negative. 

Andy_L

Grumpy_chap said:

Andy_L said:

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

But, in practical terms, what are they /their GP going to do differently knowing if they have covid vs a normal cough/cold?

Well, last week I tested positive for COVID so I did not go to a work meeting but WFH instead.  I did not feel too bad, and only tested to give the confidence that it was just a normal cold.  Once I knew it was COVID, I stayed apart from people and missed a family gathering - not because the law said so, but because it was the right thing to do.  Had it just been a cold, I would have carried on as normal as at no point did I really feel that bad.

COVID may not have affected me unduly in this instance, but there are others that would be more vulnerable to more significant outcomes and it is responsible to act in the wider good.

I was talking about the CEV, the only people who are getting free tests

kaMelo

Grumpy_chap said:

Andy_L said:

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

But, in practical terms, what are they /their GP going to do differently knowing if they have covid vs a normal cough/cold?

Well, last week I tested positive for COVID so I did not go to a work meeting but WFH instead.  I did not feel too bad, and only tested to give the confidence that it was just a normal cold.  Once I knew it was COVID, I stayed apart from people and missed a family gathering - not because the law said so, but because it was the right thing to do.  Had it just been a cold, I would have carried on as normal as at no point did I really feel that bad.

COVID may not have affected me unduly in this instance, but there are others that would be more vulnerable to more significant outcomes and it is responsible to act in the wider good.

The point is that Covid should not be viewed in isolation, illnesses such as chicken pox, shingles, flu or even a simple cold could prove deadly to those who have reduced immune systems, to treat covid differently makes no sense.

t0rt0ise

kaMelo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Andy_L said:

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

But, in practical terms, what are they /their GP going to do differently knowing if they have covid vs a normal cough/cold?

Well, last week I tested positive for COVID so I did not go to a work meeting but WFH instead.  I did not feel too bad, and only tested to give the confidence that it was just a normal cold.  Once I knew it was COVID, I stayed apart from people and missed a family gathering - not because the law said so, but because it was the right thing to do.  Had it just been a cold, I would have carried on as normal as at no point did I really feel that bad.

COVID may not have affected me unduly in this instance, but there are others that would be more vulnerable to more significant outcomes and it is responsible to act in the wider good.

The point is that Covid should not be viewed in isolation, illnesses such as chicken pox, shingles, flu or even a simple cold could prove deadly to those who have reduced immune systems, to treat covid differently makes no sense.

There's a huge difference between covid and many other diseases. Of your list: firstly people don't catch shingles; I'd hope that someone with a child with chicken pox would keep them at home, and with adults there is a protective herd immunity; colds are generally okay and antibiotics will cope with any additional bacterial infection which is the main problem; flu can be a problem but is seasonal and there really isn't much of it around now. Also anyone with true flu is most likely to be ill enough not to be leaving home. 

Covid, on the other hand is extremely contagious and very common and nobody really knows yet how good the treatments are but there are treatments for the extremely vulnerable so things are better than they were. So no need for everyone to put a hold on their life, just show a bit of common sense if they become ill.

SingleSue

t0rt0ise said:

kaMelo said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Andy_L said:

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

But, in practical terms, what are they /their GP going to do differently knowing if they have covid vs a normal cough/cold?

Well, last week I tested positive for COVID so I did not go to a work meeting but WFH instead.  I did not feel too bad, and only tested to give the confidence that it was just a normal cold.  Once I knew it was COVID, I stayed apart from people and missed a family gathering - not because the law said so, but because it was the right thing to do.  Had it just been a cold, I would have carried on as normal as at no point did I really feel that bad.

COVID may not have affected me unduly in this instance, but there are others that would be more vulnerable to more significant outcomes and it is responsible to act in the wider good.

The point is that Covid should not be viewed in isolation, illnesses such as chicken pox, shingles, flu or even a simple cold could prove deadly to those who have reduced immune systems, to treat covid differently makes no sense.

There's a huge difference between covid and many other diseases. Of your list: firstly people don't catch shingles; I'd hope that someone with a child with chicken pox would keep them at home, and with adults there is a protective herd immunity; colds are generally okay and antibiotics will cope with any additional bacterial infection which is the main problem; flu can be a problem but is seasonal and there really isn't much of it around now. Also anyone with true flu is most likely to be ill enough not to be leaving home. 

Covid, on the other hand is extremely contagious and very common and nobody really knows yet how good the treatments are but there are treatments for the extremely vulnerable so things are better than they were. So no need for everyone to put a hold on their life, just show a bit of common sense if they become ill.

We tend to treat colds with caution here, youngest has ended up in hospital on life support several times because of silly little colds that the others threw off within 48 hours. It's why when he was at university he didn't go to any of the Fresher events, didn't 'do' the flat parties or socials and pretty much kept himself to himself apart from carefully judged small group (one or two people) get togethers where a distance could be kept without appearing weird.

It was great for his bank balance though, he came home with a healthy balance instead of an overdraft like his brothers!

You can imagine how scared he (and I) was when Covid came about and in fact, he was locked down on his own in his student flat for over 3 months as it was just too eek to get him home. He has relaxed a bit now though and his friends are brilliant at doing an LFT before they have contact with him after a very close thing last summer.

Kim_kim

Andy_L said:

silvercar said:

soolin said:

WhoopsIDidItAgainITrolledWithYourHeart said:

unforeseen said:

WhoopsIDidItAgainITrolledWithYourHeart said:

 said:

 said:

 said:

As part of the Government “Living with Covid” strategy, access to FREE tests is ending 1 April for most people in England - so you need to find somewhere before then . 

No, you don't.

You need to stop obsessing over COVID and get on with your life.

There are more people infected with it than at any point in the pandemic, and there are decreasing numbers on mechanical ventilators.

The vast majority will get a mild cold and that's it, I know because I had the exact same symptoms last week.

Unfortunately for some, I didn't die.

What about those in the high risk groups? Immunocompromised etc? They have a genuine worry. The good news is that, from my experience, we seem to be flagged on the system and don't have a problem ordering LFTs. 
The vast majority may only have mild cold symptoms but the last time I caught a cold, which for me would normally be just sniffles & a sore throat, it laid me out for 3 days because I am now immuno compromised.  My wife caught covid 3 weeks ago and she said it was like a heavy (not mild) cold.
So I would rather carry on testing as that gets me the anti-virals sooner rather than later and will hopefully keep me out of hospital. 

What about them?

Why should every person who isn't immunocompromised or in a high-risk group, throw their lives away to protect a small minority?

Is this the world we've gotten to, the tyranny of the minority? "You must wear masks and stick things up your noses every day to protect me because protecting me is more important than you having a life!"

No, YOU wear a mask, YOU stick things up your nose and YOU avoid risky situations if your health situation requires it.

If you are immunocompromised, take the same steps you did pre-COVID.  It's not that difficult.  But you can't expect the rest of the world to stop you from dying.  That is, unfortunately, your problem.

You missed the point. 
I was not advocating everybody stay masked etc. I was pointing out that we would be hit harder when catching it and a continuation of free LFTs for us would help by identifying it earlier and getting the antiviral treatment in a timely manner. 

How you got "You must wear masks and stick things up your noses every day to protect me because protecting me is more important than you having a life!"  from my post is totally baffling

Immunocompromised people still have access to free LFTs, or did you not get that memo, even though it was made very clear in all mainstream media?

I suspect there are going to be a number of people that believe themselves to be eligible, but don't actually fit the new criteria. I know of several people who were designated CEV during the pandemic, food parcels being delivered etc, but are not immuno suppressed so will not qualify under the latest rules. If someone is already worried then reading the finer points of the news might not be their first thought.

I'm also not sure exactly what help a LFT will be, if someone feels ill and has health issues that means C19 might be very dangerous then they should speak to their GP. With the general population not testing then it is more likely that they will be exposed to C19 at some point without knowing it, and those who are worried need to decide whether they will continue to isolate as far as posisble without Government support, or just take as many reasonable precautions as they can and get on with things.

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

But, in practical terms, what are they /their GP going to do differently knowing if they have covid vs a normal cough/cold?

They could be given the new drugs that are supposed to help them recover from Covid.  

Nebulous2

katejo said:

silvercar said:

soolin said:

WhoopsIDidItAgainITrolledWithYourHeart said:

unforeseen said:

WhoopsIDidItAgainITrolledWithYourHeart said:

 said:

 said:

 said:

As part of the Government “Living with Covid” strategy, access to FREE tests is ending 1 April for most people in England - so you need to find somewhere before then . 

No, you don't.

You need to stop obsessing over COVID and get on with your life.

There are more people infected with it than at any point in the pandemic, and there are decreasing numbers on mechanical ventilators.

The vast majority will get a mild cold and that's it, I know because I had the exact same symptoms last week.

Unfortunately for some, I didn't die.

What about those in the high risk groups? Immunocompromised etc? They have a genuine worry. The good news is that, from my experience, we seem to be flagged on the system and don't have a problem ordering LFTs. 
The vast majority may only have mild cold symptoms but the last time I caught a cold, which for me would normally be just sniffles & a sore throat, it laid me out for 3 days because I am now immuno compromised.  My wife caught covid 3 weeks ago and she said it was like a heavy (not mild) cold.
So I would rather carry on testing as that gets me the anti-virals sooner rather than later and will hopefully keep me out of hospital. 

What about them?

Why should every person who isn't immunocompromised or in a high-risk group, throw their lives away to protect a small minority?

Is this the world we've gotten to, the tyranny of the minority? "You must wear masks and stick things up your noses every day to protect me because protecting me is more important than you having a life!"

No, YOU wear a mask, YOU stick things up your nose and YOU avoid risky situations if your health situation requires it.

If you are immunocompromised, take the same steps you did pre-COVID.  It's not that difficult.  But you can't expect the rest of the world to stop you from dying.  That is, unfortunately, your problem.

You missed the point. 
I was not advocating everybody stay masked etc. I was pointing out that we would be hit harder when catching it and a continuation of free LFTs for us would help by identifying it earlier and getting the antiviral treatment in a timely manner. 

How you got "You must wear masks and stick things up your noses every day to protect me because protecting me is more important than you having a life!"  from my post is totally baffling

Immunocompromised people still have access to free LFTs, or did you not get that memo, even though it was made very clear in all mainstream media?

I suspect there are going to be a number of people that believe themselves to be eligible, but don't actually fit the new criteria. I know of several people who were designated CEV during the pandemic, food parcels being delivered etc, but are not immuno suppressed so will not qualify under the latest rules. If someone is already worried then reading the finer points of the news might not be their first thought.

I'm also not sure exactly what help a LFT will be, if someone feels ill and has health issues that means C19 might be very dangerous then they should speak to their GP. With the general population not testing then it is more likely that they will be exposed to C19 at some point without knowing it, and those who are worried need to decide whether they will continue to isolate as far as posisble without Government support, or just take as many reasonable precautions as they can and get on with things.

It will help distinguish between covid and a normal cold or cough

Except that it often takes until about day 4/5 of the 'cold symptoms' to actually test positive. I had 2 negative PCR's and several negative/very faintly positive LTF's spread over 5 days before I got a clear positive. By that time I may have been past the infectious period. People will do 1 test at the beginning and assume it is just a cold if negative. 

I don't think often is right, occasionally would be more like it, and it may be about how the test is done. The throat picks it up better than the nose.

The most infectious period is before symptoms though. I had a sore head on the Friday night, a cough on the Saturday morning and tested positive right away. Test and protect told me the most infectious day would have been Thursday. 

Flugelhorn

the tests are never 100% however they are done, no test is that good and the LFT is no exception - the real problem is when people rely on a negative test which is actually worse than  not having the test at all. 

The Liverpool study reckoned LFT had sensitivity of 40% - so 60/100 cases wouldn't test positive - that was an early study - the Cochrane review found 58% for asymptomatic and 72% for symptomatic - so even if symptomatic they28 people in a hundred will test negative 

 "A recent Cochrane Review, which combined the results of multiple studies assessing the accuracy of LFTs, found that the average sensitivity of such tests was 72% among people with COVID-19 symptoms, and 58% for people without symptoms. This would mean that in for every 100 people infected with COVID-19 who had symptoms, only 72 of them would test positive on a LFT"

Jeremy535897

The other issue is specificity, because you also get false positives. Even at specificity of 95%, if 1 in 20 people have coronavirus, then whilst you pick up 72 cases out of 100 (number tested 2,000 as 1 in 20 have coronavirus), you also get 95 false positives (2,000 -100=1,900 x 5% = 95) (Bayes theorem).