P and o

Andy_L

Grumpy_chap said:

Andy_L said:

Maritime law applies rather than UK (employment) law

Surely that depends on what contracts of employment the staff have.  Most contracts will state under which legal jurisdiction the contract is to apply, even more so where there could be doubt, such as sea-faring employment.  Unless there is something clearly to the contrary, I would expect that employment for staff on a ferry service only operating within UK & EU would have employment contracts governed under one of those two legal entities. 

So far as I am aware, the business that did this only operates between Great Britain, the island of Ireland and EU.  P&O Ferries is a different company to P&O Cruises or any other brand in the group.

AIUI what is in the contract that seafarers have is the be-all & end-all of what rights they & their employer have. ie it can say "you can be dismissed with X days notice & £Y compensation whenever we feel like it" there is no read across from the employment law of the country of the ship/employer/employee/location simply because, as you say, it can change (literally) overnight.

Grumpy_chap

Andy_L said:

AIUI what is in the contract that seafarers have is the be-all & end-all of what rights they & their employer have. ie it can say "you can be dismissed with X days notice & £Y compensation whenever we feel like it" there is no read across from the employment law of the country of the ship/employer/employee/location simply because, as you say, it can change (literally) overnight.

Somewhere in the employment contract there will be a clause that looks a bit like this:

The validity construction and performance of this contract of employment will be governed by English law.  The parties submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England and Wales in connection with any claim, dispute or matter arising out of or relating to this contract.

There is that type of clause in virtually every contract.  So, the employment law of whichever country is stated will apply.  In the case of a wholly UK / EU based and operating company, which P&O Ferries is, it is quite likely that the applicable law and jurisdiction will be an appropriate UK / EU country.  

mark1959

It's obvious to even the tories [nice but dim] that it's not redundancy, but sacking. Not legal or ethical.

molerat

I am sure a load of highly paid lawyers and accountants looked at what they were doing first.  I wonder what actual assets they have in the UK, the ferries are not UK registered and I doubt they own them, likely they could simply put the UK arm into receivership and phoenix into a completely different company overnight, all liabilities going up in a puff of smoke with the government left to pick up the tab.

ashe

It's not that unusual. I lost my job in 2012 when the bank I worked for transferred my role to the Philippines. My role still existed, and we were expected to train them etc. 

Jillanddy

Thrugelmir said:

borefest said:

it’s disgraceful and no doubt other companies will follow suit.

I'm sure that there's more to this story that's yet to emerge. Unions are unfortunately renown for their intransigence. The pandemic being the final nail in the coffin. P&O's owners being no longer willing to fund the loss making operation as it currently stands. £100 million a year is no small sum. 

Employers, of course are never intransigent. 

£10million claimed from the UK government / tax payers in furlough pay. £270million in dividends paid out that year. £683miilion profit on the year. Yes,  Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem is obviously impoverished compared to the employees. 

[Deleted User]

Will keep following this story to the end but the ball is in the GOV, unions and lawyers courts now and it's up to them to be as ruthless as P&O but right now it's all clutching of pearls and maybe that has something to do with due process but here's hoping! 

Andy_L

Deleted_User said:

Will keep following this story to the end but the ball is in the GOV, unions and lawyers courts now and it's up to them to be as ruthless as P&O but right now it's all clutching of pearls and maybe that has something to do with due process but here's hoping! 

AIUI the penalty for not consulting is that an employment tribunal will award  damages of 13 weeks pay. Which P&O have already built into the redundancy package plan.