Plumbing advice

benson1980

Hi all,

Next job for our house renovation is our en suite and separate small toilet, so was going to tackle the small toilet first. I've not done bathrooms or plumbing before in terms of replacing suites etc, so these are hopefully quite basic issues....

As you can see from the photo below, there is a pretty hideous current arrangement for the sink waste pipe and I was hoping to be able to tidy this up a bit, albeit I am guessing there is some reason as to why it is arranged in this way, potentially? The main option I was considering was removing a bit of the plasterboard and seeing if I could conceal a bit more of the pipework, obviously being careful when removing said plasterboard not to go through any of the copper supply pipework that will also be behind it. Should this in theory be pretty straightforward in terms of replacement plastic pipe sections and fittings? There must be sufficient room within the partition void to make it look a little neater? Obviously I can't do a vanity unit as the radiator is in the way and the room itself is pretty small. Any other suggestions welcome. If it makes any difference, the other side of the partition is a shower room albeit on this wall we have a sink and all of the supply and waste pipework is fully exposed.

Next question, and hopefully easy one as said. I want to remove the radiator to decorate and I've not come across this type of valve before. Do I simply need to clamp down on and push the top bit in i.e. this bit pushes down and closes the valve? I have a clamp tool I bought off eBay. I presume it is, but just wanted to check.

Thanks

Bendy_House

What's that wall made of - stud or solid block - and where does the waste pipe go?

That rad valve is a standard type, and that spindle it rotated in order to control the heat output, and to shut it off. Could you also post a pic of the other end?

Usually you have a 'lockshield' valve, one which has a loose cap on top to prevent tampering, and this is used to 'balance' the rad so it is getting just the right amount of hot water compared to all the other rads in the house (all the rads will have a lockshield valve at one end. Don't twiddle them...). The other valve is the 'control' and is often identical, except it has a push/screw-on cap which is 'knobbly' and is clearly designed for turning by hand - this is used to turn the heat up and down, and the rad off if not needed. This control cap fits tightly on that spindle, and the 'flats' on the spindle means that it grips and turns the valve. Underneath their caps, the valves are usually identical - they look like wot's in that pic. It's just that one cap 'spins' loosely, and the other actual does turn the spindle.

Ok, rule one: both valves need to be fully closed shut (clockwise) before the rad can be removed. Two: the 'lockshield' valve should have its position noted down carefully so it can be returned to the same point afterwards. Ie - pull off the cap. Mark or attach a piece of tap to the spindle to note its position. Turn it clockwise until it's fully closed, whilst counting all turns and part-turns it takes. Don't be surprised if it only takes a couple of turns. When the rad is back on, open it up the same amount, and pop the loose cap back on.

Bendy_House

Any chance of a wider shot? Could the basin move towards the right? Could the rad be replaced by a narrower towel rad?

The simplest way to tidy that up is with using a vanity unit, but as you realise you'd need to cater for that rad somehow.

benson1980

Yep, sure. Here's the room



The radiator valves are exactly as you describe so that's fine. Makes sense that these screw shut rather than push down. What's the normal method of closing the left hand side one off then i.e. easiest way to turn it?

The waste will run through to the soil stack which is behind the toilet. Basically the upstairs is a bit of a dormer arrangement so this will all join up in the roof void I'm guessing but then the visible internal soil stack (I say visible- basically plasterboard surround where it runs through) is in the kitchen below.

Maybe one solution as you say is move the rad pipework (I'd get someone in to do this) and have a small heated towel rail nearer the door, and then put a vanity unit in, but then it's not just the spacing on this wall. It's the floor space as well which is obviously tight. Any suggestions/ideas welcome. One thing I don't want to do it knock through to the shower room as we quite like it separate. 

Section62

benson1980 said:

Maybe one solution as you say is move the rad pipework (I'd get someone in to do this) and have a small heated towel rail nearer the door, and then put a vanity unit in, but then it's not just the spacing on this wall. It's the floor space as well which is obviously tight. Any suggestions/ideas welcome.

You'd need to move the toilet as well to fit a vanity unit in, and even then it would look/feel cramped.

There's almost certainly a reason why the waste pipe goes through the wall in the position it does - e.g. either there's a stud in the way, or there was a pre-existing hole if the wall is solid.  You need to figure out what the reason was, and whether it is feasible to do something different.

What is on the other side of the wall the basin is fixed to?

Bendy_House

benson1980 said:

Yep, sure. Here's the room



The radiator valves are exactly as you describe so that's fine. Makes sense that these screw shut rather than push down. What's the normal method of closing the left hand side one off then i.e. easiest way to turn it?

The waste will run through to the soil stack which is behind the toilet. Basically the upstairs is a bit of a dormer arrangement so this will all join up in the roof void I'm guessing but then the visible internal soil stack (I say visible- basically plasterboard surround where it runs through) is in the kitchen below.

Maybe one solution as you say is move the rad pipework (I'd get someone in to do this) and have a small heated towel rail nearer the door, and then put a vanity unit in, but then it's not just the spacing on this wall. It's the floor space as well which is obviously tight. Any suggestions/ideas welcome. One thing I don't want to do it knock through to the shower room as we quite like it separate. 

"What's the normal method of closing the left hand side one off then i.e. easiest way to turn it?" The LH valve appears to be the knobbly one - the one you DO adjust as you want, in order to control the heat output. That would make the RH valve - the knobless one - the 'lockshield', the one you need to return to its current position once it's all done. (Although, if you fit a different rad, that won't matter - it'll need its own setting...)

How to shut off the lockshield? By either using a small spanner, or by using the knob off the other side - it'll plonk on and turn the spindle.

Yes, tight for space. If you fitted a normal vanity unit, it would probably get in the way of the loo? So it would likely have to be a 'floating' type - wall-mounted?

What's that wall made of? If it's 'stud' and plasterboard, then the easiest thing would be to reposition the waste and tapp supply pipes behind it, and to patch it up again. That's all quite DIYable, but you'd need to do your research and feel confident about what you are doing.

I quite like the floating beam vanity shelves, and these can actually be a really nice (advanced-ish) DIY project; a couple of short scaffold boards held up with large metal brackets, with your choice of basin sitting on top. Chrome bottle trap if showing...  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194304966285

And the rad replaced by a narrow, taller, towel rail/rad.

benson1980

Section62 said:

benson1980 said:

Maybe one solution as you say is move the rad pipework (I'd get someone in to do this) and have a small heated towel rail nearer the door, and then put a vanity unit in, but then it's not just the spacing on this wall. It's the floor space as well which is obviously tight. Any suggestions/ideas welcome.

You'd need to move the toilet as well to fit a vanity unit in, and even then it would look/feel cramped.

There's almost certainly a reason why the waste pipe goes through the wall in the position it does - e.g. either there's a stud in the way, or there was a pre-existing hole if the wall is solid.  You need to figure out what the reason was, and whether it is feasible to do something different.

What is on the other side of the wall the basin is fixed to?

Agreed I think vanity unit is probably out.

forgot to answer bendys  query re wall. It’s just partition. The other side of the wall as said is shower room, and more specifically this is where the shower room sink is but all pipe work runs externally for that. 

I’m going to hazard a guess that the waste drops down from where it enters the wall, and as you say there were no other options I guess as it’s not like you can cut a noggin out of the stud timber to accommodate a pipe this wide? Excuse my ignorance if this isn’t correct…

is one option to take the waste pipe through to the shower room the other side as there I do have a bit more space and was planning some kind of vanity unit to accommodate the pipes? But then it would still need to feed into where ever the toilet sink waste goes to so seems a bit of a faff.

tacpot12

The lower fittings on the waste pipe look like they are solvent welded. They will have to be cut off an new fittings installed. Solvent welding is easy to do and provides the neatest appearance, so I would look into replacing any fittings & pipes with solvent weldable items. 

I'd suggest you look behind the wall where you want to hide the waste pipe, and then try to look inside the wall. You might take the trap off the basin, and drill a 38-40mm hole immediately behind it (which is ideally where you want to the waste to go), so you can look into the wall. If there is a stud there, or if there is some other obstruction, you can refit the bit of plasterboard and fill round it.