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PCN, £100, both operator and POPLA rejected appeals
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TamerAM
Posts: 9 Forumite
Hi Money Savers,
I find myself in quite a damned situation and I am not sure what to do.
Long story short: I was with my partner and we had a ice skating booking at Planet Ice. We had paid for 2 hours parking because our Planet Ice booking was for 2 hours. By the time we had to leave the ice rink, after the final whistle, my partner got really dizzy (she has a health condition where she suddenly and randomly feints) and she fell and sprained her ankle really bad. We had to stay there until she recuperated and placed some ice bags on her ankle, after which we drove home. After that incident, I was really shocked and totally forgot about the parking at Planet Ice. I did not want to fraudulently keep my car there without being paid. The Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) has images of the vehicle, entering the car park at 20.02, and exiting at 22.27, totalling a stay of 2 hours 25 minutes (for which I only paid, because of what is stated above, 2 hours).
It was an urgent need for which I deeply apologised to the operator in a direct appeal and they rejected, saying that they do not care about mitigating circumstances. I am currently in a tough financial position where, because of COVID and my family being affected really bad, I had to quit my job in November and I have just returned back to UK after visiting and being there with them after which I was bed-ridden due to COVID - I had different short timed jobs and currently looking for a full-time job.
Afterwards, I went and appealed to POPLA, submitted a list of everything we experienced then, what the reason was and that I paid for 2 hours after which my partner's condition shocked me and totally forgot. In the end, they rejected my appeal and ordered to pay the fine to the operator...
I am totally lost now, what should I do? Will they send debt collectors after me? Will they take me to court if I won't pay this PCN? This is my first time receiving a PCN and I have no legal help, no lawyer and no one to support me with what I should do. I do not have £100 to pay to them and I am just shocked that they did not even care of the reason, a notable health reason. It was my first time parking there.
POPLA's decision:
"Assessor summary of operator case:
The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) due to whole Period Of Parking Not Paid For.
Assessor summary of your case
The appellant’s case is that they visited the site while attending Planet ice for a 2 hour booking. The appellant explains that they were only able to pay by cash as they did not have the mobile app but whilst skating their partner, who has heath conditions became dizzy, fell and sprained their ancle. The appellant says that after attending to this situation they then drove home and forgot to pay for their parking. The appellant says they are in financial difficulty due to COVID 19 and this was a genuine mistake. Within their comments to the operator’s evidence, the appellant has reiterated their grounds for appeal in further detail.
Assessor supporting rational for decision
The appellant has identified as the driver of the vehicle on the day of the parking event. As such, I am considering the appellant’s liability for the PCN, as the driver. When entering onto a private car park such as this one, any motorist forms a contract with the operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states: “Please pay for your stay – No need to display receipt in vehicle…Parking tariffs apply at all times… How to Pay using Machine. Follow these step by step instructions…Up to 2 hours £2.00…Up to 4 hours £4.00”. The motorist is also advised that failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) of £100. The operator has also provided Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) images of the vehicle, entering the car park at 20.02, and exiting at 22.27, totalling a stay of 2 hours 25 minutes. The operator has provided a log showing that the motorist’s vehicle registration number paid for a 2 hour duration on the date of the event. As such a PCN has been issued. I will now examine all the information provided to determine if it makes a material difference to the validity of the PCN. The appellant’s case is that they visited the site while attending Planet ice for a 2 hour booking. The appellant explains that they were only able to pay by cash as they did not have the mobile app but whilst skating their partner, who has heath conditions became dizzy, fell and sprained their ancle. The appellant says that after attending to this situation they then drove home and forgot to pay for their parking. The appellant explains they had a 2 hour booking at Planet Ice but their partner had an accident which resulted in them overstaying the period they had paid for. While I sympathise with the appellants circumstances I will advise, when looking at appeals, POPLA considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the conditions of the contract. Even if a motorist presents mitigating circumstances setting out exceptional reasons why they did not keep to the parking conditions, POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed and the motorist did not keep to the parking conditions. POPLA is able to request that a parking operator cancels a parking charge if we consider that it has not given reasonable consideration to mitigating circumstances and the mitigating circumstances prevented the motorist from keeping to the parking conditions. However, the decision on whether or not to cancel the parking charge remains with the parking operator. On this occasion, we are of the view the mitigating circumstances did not prevent the motorist from keeping to the parking conditions, and they were able to pay for the additional time they spent on the site. When entering onto a privately managed land such as this one, any motorist forms a contract with the operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. Therefore, upon entry to the site, it is the duty of the motorist to ensure they review the terms and conditions, and comply with them, when deciding to park. The operator has provided images of the signage that states, “Up to 2 hours £2.00, Up to 4 hours £4.00”. The operator has also provided details from its ANPR camera system that shows the appellant vehicle entering and leaving the site for a total duration of, 2 hours 25 minutes. Because the appellant made a payment for a 2 hour duration a PCN has been issued as the payment they made was insufficient for the full duration they spent on site, as they were required to pay £4.00 for their full duration on the site. While I appreciate it may have been difficult for the appellant to pay for the additional time given the circumstances they have explained I note, it is still their responsibility to ensure they comply with the terms and conditions when parking on private land. The appellant says they are in financial difficulty due to COVID 19 and this was a genuine mistake. Whilst I empathise with the appellant’s financial situation, once POPLA has issued the decision, our involvement ends. The appellant may need to contact the operator for assistance regarding payment options. When looking at appeals, POPLA considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the terms and conditions of the contract. POPLA will use the evidence provided by appellant and operator to assess the appeal. POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed, and the motorist parked but did not keep to the parking conditions. For the reasons outlined above, I conclude that the PCN has been issued correctly. Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to comply with the terms and conditions of the car park. Upon consideration of the evidence, the appellant did not pay for their full duration, and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions. As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal."
It's been a week since their decision and I am scared because I do not know what I should do.
If you have a bit of spare time and experience with these situations, could you please help me out?
I find myself in quite a damned situation and I am not sure what to do.
Long story short: I was with my partner and we had a ice skating booking at Planet Ice. We had paid for 2 hours parking because our Planet Ice booking was for 2 hours. By the time we had to leave the ice rink, after the final whistle, my partner got really dizzy (she has a health condition where she suddenly and randomly feints) and she fell and sprained her ankle really bad. We had to stay there until she recuperated and placed some ice bags on her ankle, after which we drove home. After that incident, I was really shocked and totally forgot about the parking at Planet Ice. I did not want to fraudulently keep my car there without being paid. The Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) has images of the vehicle, entering the car park at 20.02, and exiting at 22.27, totalling a stay of 2 hours 25 minutes (for which I only paid, because of what is stated above, 2 hours).
It was an urgent need for which I deeply apologised to the operator in a direct appeal and they rejected, saying that they do not care about mitigating circumstances. I am currently in a tough financial position where, because of COVID and my family being affected really bad, I had to quit my job in November and I have just returned back to UK after visiting and being there with them after which I was bed-ridden due to COVID - I had different short timed jobs and currently looking for a full-time job.
Afterwards, I went and appealed to POPLA, submitted a list of everything we experienced then, what the reason was and that I paid for 2 hours after which my partner's condition shocked me and totally forgot. In the end, they rejected my appeal and ordered to pay the fine to the operator...
I am totally lost now, what should I do? Will they send debt collectors after me? Will they take me to court if I won't pay this PCN? This is my first time receiving a PCN and I have no legal help, no lawyer and no one to support me with what I should do. I do not have £100 to pay to them and I am just shocked that they did not even care of the reason, a notable health reason. It was my first time parking there.
POPLA's decision:
"Assessor summary of operator case:
The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) due to whole Period Of Parking Not Paid For.
Assessor summary of your case
The appellant’s case is that they visited the site while attending Planet ice for a 2 hour booking. The appellant explains that they were only able to pay by cash as they did not have the mobile app but whilst skating their partner, who has heath conditions became dizzy, fell and sprained their ancle. The appellant says that after attending to this situation they then drove home and forgot to pay for their parking. The appellant says they are in financial difficulty due to COVID 19 and this was a genuine mistake. Within their comments to the operator’s evidence, the appellant has reiterated their grounds for appeal in further detail.
Assessor supporting rational for decision
The appellant has identified as the driver of the vehicle on the day of the parking event. As such, I am considering the appellant’s liability for the PCN, as the driver. When entering onto a private car park such as this one, any motorist forms a contract with the operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states: “Please pay for your stay – No need to display receipt in vehicle…Parking tariffs apply at all times… How to Pay using Machine. Follow these step by step instructions…Up to 2 hours £2.00…Up to 4 hours £4.00”. The motorist is also advised that failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) of £100. The operator has also provided Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) images of the vehicle, entering the car park at 20.02, and exiting at 22.27, totalling a stay of 2 hours 25 minutes. The operator has provided a log showing that the motorist’s vehicle registration number paid for a 2 hour duration on the date of the event. As such a PCN has been issued. I will now examine all the information provided to determine if it makes a material difference to the validity of the PCN. The appellant’s case is that they visited the site while attending Planet ice for a 2 hour booking. The appellant explains that they were only able to pay by cash as they did not have the mobile app but whilst skating their partner, who has heath conditions became dizzy, fell and sprained their ancle. The appellant says that after attending to this situation they then drove home and forgot to pay for their parking. The appellant explains they had a 2 hour booking at Planet Ice but their partner had an accident which resulted in them overstaying the period they had paid for. While I sympathise with the appellants circumstances I will advise, when looking at appeals, POPLA considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the conditions of the contract. Even if a motorist presents mitigating circumstances setting out exceptional reasons why they did not keep to the parking conditions, POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed and the motorist did not keep to the parking conditions. POPLA is able to request that a parking operator cancels a parking charge if we consider that it has not given reasonable consideration to mitigating circumstances and the mitigating circumstances prevented the motorist from keeping to the parking conditions. However, the decision on whether or not to cancel the parking charge remains with the parking operator. On this occasion, we are of the view the mitigating circumstances did not prevent the motorist from keeping to the parking conditions, and they were able to pay for the additional time they spent on the site. When entering onto a privately managed land such as this one, any motorist forms a contract with the operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. Therefore, upon entry to the site, it is the duty of the motorist to ensure they review the terms and conditions, and comply with them, when deciding to park. The operator has provided images of the signage that states, “Up to 2 hours £2.00, Up to 4 hours £4.00”. The operator has also provided details from its ANPR camera system that shows the appellant vehicle entering and leaving the site for a total duration of, 2 hours 25 minutes. Because the appellant made a payment for a 2 hour duration a PCN has been issued as the payment they made was insufficient for the full duration they spent on site, as they were required to pay £4.00 for their full duration on the site. While I appreciate it may have been difficult for the appellant to pay for the additional time given the circumstances they have explained I note, it is still their responsibility to ensure they comply with the terms and conditions when parking on private land. The appellant says they are in financial difficulty due to COVID 19 and this was a genuine mistake. Whilst I empathise with the appellant’s financial situation, once POPLA has issued the decision, our involvement ends. The appellant may need to contact the operator for assistance regarding payment options. When looking at appeals, POPLA considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the terms and conditions of the contract. POPLA will use the evidence provided by appellant and operator to assess the appeal. POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed, and the motorist parked but did not keep to the parking conditions. For the reasons outlined above, I conclude that the PCN has been issued correctly. Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to comply with the terms and conditions of the car park. Upon consideration of the evidence, the appellant did not pay for their full duration, and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions. As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal."
It's been a week since their decision and I am scared because I do not know what I should do.
If you have a bit of spare time and experience with these situations, could you please help me out?
0
Comments
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Fear not, a rejrction at PoPLA means nothing. It is what a just says tat matters, and many judges feel that thwse companis are wasting court time with these claims. Judges are only too wel aware of the greedy nature of these companies.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.2
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You sound surprised @TamerAM. Don't be. This is the business model, so a PPC does not want to listen to reason. Reason does not make them money, and all they want is money. PoPLA are as much use as a chocolate fireguard, and if they are truly independent then I am the Pope.
@D_P_Dance is right. This may not get as far as Court, and if it does then it is only what the Judge says that counts.
You may well start to get debt collector letters. They will try to frighten the wits out of you, but actually they can do nothing. So, it will not go to Court until/unless you get a Letter of Claim. Keep your eyes open for that, read the Newbies and get familiar with the process. Sleep nights. If anything DOES happen, it will likely be months yetThe pen is mightier than the sword ..... and I have many pens.3 -
I have been thinking a bit more about this one. You say that your partner has a health condition which means she randomly faints. Has this been officially diagnosed? Does it have a name ? If it is a recognised condition, it may be worth you checking the allowed conditions in the 2010 Equality Act. You MIGHT just find a defence right there.The pen is mightier than the sword ..... and I have many pens.3
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Who is the parking company?
If they continue:-Quote the new Parking Code of Practice which the BPA have instructed their members to now use:"8.3.4 In considering appeals, the parking operator’s process must provide for consideration of mitigating circumstances, with no presumption that these are to be accepted, in accordance with the considerations at Annex F.3."3 -
Whos car park is / was this?Where was it? i've never heard of planet ice before and a google search doesn't help"Planet Ice is a chain of ice rinks in the United Kingdom"There are some avenues open, including cancellation via a landowner complaint ( ie planet ice) although you will need to word it carefully.At the moment do not even think about paying , POPLA is not binding on the motorist .So Location? Parking company name?From the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"2 -
Thank you, deeply, to everyone helping me out.
I am really really scared, this is my first ever legal experience and I have not fraudulently parked onto Premier Park's premises, a bad situation happened with my partner and I was shocked, totally forgot about my parking. I am afraid of what to do or not do. Do you think something bad could happen? They could get me to court having these mitigating circumstances that they did not care about? For 25 minutes over the paid permit?...
I have uploaded the evidence they submitted to POPLA on here:https://easyupload.io/m/65q10n
If you have a bit of spare time to check it out, please, do it. I did my best to hide all personal details but if you find anything, please let me know.
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Take a breath ! There are already four people offering advice, and giving you some ideas to defend along. Read the Newbies, understand the process and realise that even if it goes to Court, you are months away from that and there is loads of help on here to help you defend.
By the time it gets to Court, (if ever) you may be in that better job, more able to cope both financially and emotionally. So breathe, sleep and do your research .... have a look at that idea about your partner's condition, for a starterThe pen is mightier than the sword ..... and I have many pens.2 -
This is a claim for a breach of contract, the contract is usually iffy and the judge will know that most of these cases are sams. FWIIW, nearly nine million tickets are issued by the scammers each year. Judges are not foolsYou never know how far you can go until you go too far.2
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There is nothing to defend yet, as the so called court process hasnt started.You may get a few questions, as they are designed to get a better understanding of your situation so that help can be given please answer themYou must look at a complaint to planet ice, but before you do you must post it on here as it must be correctly wordedOn pepipoo you were asked if your wifes condition is long standing, and going by this it would appear so :she has a health condition where she suddenly and randomly feints
One quick question, can your wife hold/have a driving licence or does her condition ( randomly fainting) prevent this?From the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"1 -
Thank you SO SO SO much for your support - Planet Ice is indeed a chain of ice rinks and the parking, for the one I stated above, is managed by Premier Park ANPR PCN (Planet Ice CP1 MK MK51DL).Half_way said:Whos car park is / was this?Where was it? i've never heard of planet ice before and a google search doesn't help"Planet Ice is a chain of ice rinks in the United Kingdom"There are some avenues open, including cancellation via a landowner complaint ( ie planet ice) although you will need to word it carefully.At the moment do not even think about paying , POPLA is not binding on the motorist .So Location? Parking company name?
In the attachments above it's some evidence that Premier Park provided, with the contract between them and Planet Ice, so it looks to me valid (?). I have 0 legal knowledge so, it could be not binding..?
Regarding my partner's condition, she has a deficiency of Iron in her body and that causes sudden feints and loss of conscience sometimes. We have a doctor's paper from her last hospital's visit, stating the medical term for this.0
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