Fines for cyclists?

[Deleted User]

DB1904 said:

Deleted_User said:

DB1904 said:

Deleted_User said:

DB1904 said:

Deleted_User said:

If seen, red light jumping, obviously drunk, speeding in the parks that have the limits, on the phone.

Police periodically do spot checks for lights in winter/night commuting as well. Technically you can be done for not having rear reflectors and pedal reflectors but they generally don't bother as many pedals now don't have these especially clipless

Generally though if you have scant resources, is it really worth going after the odd Bloke on Bike or cyclist for doing something relatively minor? I know people love to bang on about red lights but in London over 10 years TfL data showed people on bikes were responsible for just 4% of all pedestrians who were KSI by a red light jumper (with no deaths), motorists were responsible for 71%. Similarly, around 40 pedestrians a year are killed on the pavement by drivers, you get 1 or so per 2 years in a fatal collision with a bike

Is that a specific offence?

No but it's covered under "careless or inconsiderate cycling contrary to section 29 of the Road Traffic Act 1988." per Rule 68 : “You MUST NOT ride in a dangerous, careless, or inconsiderate manner.”

29 Careless, and inconsiderate, cycling.

If a person rides a cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

It's the same as undertaking which also isn't a specific offence but you can still be done for it

It could be but you'd need a bit more than simply using the phone. 

Sure, careless / inconsiderate is easy enough though and using it while riding in front of the police is asking for trouble - given you'd likely be doing it in a town, it would be easy enough to have a problem with pedestrians around. Carless driving:

Careless driving falls below the minimum standard expected of a careful driver and includes driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.

I would think most people would accept that riding while using a phone meets that

Not really, just watch any distance cycle race. You'll see eating and drinking in a peloton without incident so a phone is no worse. 

Before using a phone whilst driving was an offence why do you think the police went for not on proper control rather than careless? 

Eating and drinking is not at all like using a phone, demonstrable by proper testing - shoving stuff in your mouth while concentrating on the road, vs concentrating on the phone call... 

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] said:

Username03725 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

You were talking about public roads, not the parks setup. In order to be penalised, you have to have a speedo like in a car as they can prove you were knowingly going too fast. As not all bikes have a GPS or similar, you cannot have a rule that says you will be penalised for speeding if you have a GPS but not if you don't.

Speeding (for motor vehicles) is a strict liability offence: it is not necessary to prove that the offender "knew" he was speeding, nor that he intended to do so. So the general lack of speedos is not a valid reason for exempting cyclists from speed limits.

The exemption probably dates from a time when breaking the speed limit on a pushbike was close to unthinkable. That is not the case today, especially with the spread of 20 mph restrictions. I see cyclists exceeding that limit almost daily. 

It's not about knowing or not knowing, it's about having the means to be satisfied as a user of a vehicle being used legally on the road, that the operator can reasonably be expected to know its current speed and remain on the right side of the limit. A car must be fitted with a speed measuring device, accurate within proscribed limits. A bicycle doesn't need to have one, ergo it's neither reasonable nor practical to penalise cyclists for the simple business of exceeding the limit.

I would respectfully suggest that a cyclist in a 20 mph limit who is going faster than the motor vehicles - or even overtaking them - is unlikely to be unaware that he is doing more than 20.

I'd also suggest that requiring speedos to be fitted wouldn't be an unreasonable imposition. They're as cheap as chips.

Cheap as chips ones with magnet sensors aren't that accurate and require setting up with the wheel size - while tread isn't an issue on road bikes, the inflation of the tyre and modern wheel sizes/widths make them less accurate. It's not a bad idea but rarely needed for the average rider

[Deleted User]

wongataa said:

Deleted_User said:

Car_54 said:

Ergates said:

sevenhills said:

We very rarely hear about cyclists being prosecuted or fined.

What penalties can the police give a cyclist, if they can catch them or identify them?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60722270?fbclid=IwAR39KVoz_tuJ880ygOLimXc0DmDr6YllmKBODwd35F6G-AXMlt-SG-QGHK0

A lot of the most commonly committed traffic offences (e.g. speeding or using your phone) are difficult or impossible to commit on a bike (for most people).  Also, the risks to other people are significantly lower.

Neither speeding nor phone use are offences on a bike, at least on public roads. However, I regularly see phones in use around here, and speeding is really not so difficult.

Speeding is impossible to police on a bike because bikes don't have a speedometer fitted to them.

Actually speeding is impossible on a bicycle because no speed limit applies to them (apart from possibly in the Royal Parks in London which have their own different regulations).

Speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles.  Bicycles are not motorised vehicles, ergo they are not subject to speed limits.

Yes. Which I already posted when I quoted the law earlier in the thread

[Deleted User]

sevenhills said:

Username03725 said:

:
I'm off out for the evening, it'll be interesting to see how this one goes. But it looks like it's heading towards Anti-Cycling Bingo anyway. Helmets, insurance, road ta blah blah. The usual nonsense. Enjoy...

I started this thread because I thought it was unjust to ban cyclists from Snake Pass. Are pedestrians, mobility scooters and joggers banned?

Snake pass is only banned for safety concerns. I've seen it done when it's been closed for traffic in the past and done it myself on similar closed roads, there was one near Eyam which was similarly banned for cars due to road surface falling apart. It makes no sense to suggest that locals can safely drive up there but a bike cannot go up it just for leisure but hey ho.

[Deleted User]

Herzlos said:

[Deleted User] said:

I would respectfully suggest that a cyclist in a 20 mph limit who is going faster than the motor vehicles - or even overtaking them - is unlikely to be unaware that he is doing more than 20.

I'd also suggest that requiring speedos to be fitted wouldn't be an unreasonable imposition. They're as cheap as chips.

The cyclist has no way to know that the cars they are overtaking are actually doing 20 or if they are being slowed by traffic somewhere. If it's free flowing traffic, that's different.

Cheap as chips speedos - the tiny computers that read wheel rotaion - are horribly inaccurate even if calibrated properly to the wheel size of the bike. A decent GPS one that you mount to the front of a bike (and can thus actually see it) starts at about £150.

The idea of making them a mandatory thing is bonkers given how unlikely it is for a cyclist to break a speed limit somewhere. It's only really possible in a 20 zone that's either flat or downhill. I think my peak speed (downhill) has been about 34mph but there's no way I could top 30mph on the flat.

I've done 50 on a long, straight downhill on a sportive and there are a few roads near me that are downhill and 30 limits, I have gone by a speed camera a few times at a lot more than 30 but don't think I set it off. I saw a video once of a guy trying to set one off on his bike and took several attempts to get it to trigger but there are a few clips on YouTube of people managing it. On my commuter bike a sustained 20mph on flat is hard going but on my current best bike I can push 25+ on flats for a while

Herzlos

Deleted_User said:

OK the wording is a bit off. The fact is that bikes do not have a calibrated speedo, so cannot be done for that.

Cyclists (hell, even blokes on bikes) have been able to do more than 20mph for a long time. As a reference point, the first year the average speed on the Tour de France passed 20mph was 1948, doing 20mph on the flat isn't difficult

I'd suggest that your average cyclist is nowhere near as fit as the average TdF rider. Average normal cyclist speed is about 10-12 mph.

Herzlos

Deleted_User said:

I've done 50 on a long, straight downhill on a sportive and there are a few roads near me that are downhill and 30 limits, I have gone by a speed camera a few times at a lot more than 30 but don't think I set it off. I saw a video once of a guy trying to set one off on his bike and took several attempts to get it to trigger but there are a few clips on YouTube of people managing it. On my commuter bike a sustained 20mph on flat is hard going but on my current best bike I can push 25+ on flats for a while

Having multiple bikes and attending sportives would almost certainly make you a better than average cyclist who is commuting or doing small leisure rides.

How often do you go down the 50mph straight sportive downhill vs how often are you commuting?

There are definitely cases where a cyclist could break the speed limit, that's never been in doubt and I've likely done it myself on a few hills, but as a percentage of miles pedaled it's insignificant. It absolutely wouldn't require making speedometers mandatory in the same context as cars where anyone can hit 100mph without breaking a sweat.

silverwhistle

Deleted_User said:

Snake pass is only banned for safety concerns.

I believe they quoted the construction/maintenance traffic as a concern. Must be so safe when there's normal traffic then? ;-)

born_again

sevenhills said:

Username03725 said:

:
I'm off out for the evening, it'll be interesting to see how this one goes. But it looks like it's heading towards Anti-Cycling Bingo anyway. Helmets, insurance, road ta blah blah. The usual nonsense. Enjoy...

I started this thread because I thought it was unjust to ban cyclists from Snake Pass. Are pedestrians, mobility scooters and joggers banned?

Yes for their own safety & to allow the workers to get on with their job fixing the road without having to worry about people getting in their way.
Health & safety.