Fines for cyclists?

Username03725

So the legal basis for prosecution should be 'exceeding the ambient traffic speed'? Err, no thanks.

2/10. Must try harder.

As for a legal requirement to fit a speedo to every bike, that's laughable. Accuracy (most depend on setting the tyre size), maintenance, battery life...

I'm off out for the evening, it'll be interesting to see how this one goes. But it looks like it's heading towards Anti-Cycling Bingo anyway. Helmets, insurance, road tax blah blah. The usual nonsense. Enjoy...

sevenhills

Username03725 said:

:
I'm off out for the evening, it'll be interesting to see how this one goes. But it looks like it's heading towards Anti-Cycling Bingo anyway. Helmets, insurance, road ta blah blah. The usual nonsense. Enjoy...

I started this thread because I thought it was unjust to ban cyclists from Snake Pass. Are pedestrians, mobility scooters and joggers banned?

mark1959

Only if they've not got a speedometer.

Petriix

Given the (lack of) severity of the consequences of breaking road traffic laws on a bike, the real question is '*why* fine cyclists?'

Penalties for motor vehicle drivers are designed to discourage dangerous acts. Cyclists simply aren't capable of posing the same level of danger. Just because something is annoying doesn't mean it should be a finable offence. 

northwalesd

sevenhills said:
I started this thread because I thought it was unjust to ban cyclists from Snake Pass. Are pedestrians, mobility scooters and joggers banned?

Yes, it's closed to all users (except residents and their visitors). That includes walkers.

sevenhills

northwalesd said:

Yes, it's closed to all users (except residents and their visitors). That includes walkers.

So it's safe to use then?

Herzlos

[Deleted User] said:

I would respectfully suggest that a cyclist in a 20 mph limit who is going faster than the motor vehicles - or even overtaking them - is unlikely to be unaware that he is doing more than 20.

I'd also suggest that requiring speedos to be fitted wouldn't be an unreasonable imposition. They're as cheap as chips.

The cyclist has no way to know that the cars they are overtaking are actually doing 20 or if they are being slowed by traffic somewhere. If it's free flowing traffic, that's different.

Cheap as chips speedos - the tiny computers that read wheel rotaion - are horribly inaccurate even if calibrated properly to the wheel size of the bike. A decent GPS one that you mount to the front of a bike (and can thus actually see it) starts at about £150.

The idea of making them a mandatory thing is bonkers given how unlikely it is for a cyclist to break a speed limit somewhere. It's only really possible in a 20 zone that's either flat or downhill. I think my peak speed (downhill) has been about 34mph but there's no way I could top 30mph on the flat.

Herzlos

DB1904 said:

Not really, just watch any distance cycle race. You'll see eating and drinking in a peloton without incident so a phone is no worse. 

Before using a phone whilst driving was an offence why do you think the police went for not on proper control rather than careless? 

Pelotons are a bit different, given it's a cluster of bikes on what is often a closed road section. Anyway, grabbing a drink on a bike isn't any more difficult than grabbing a drink in a car, except steering with one hand is a bit harder. You can still do it whilst looking at the road and remaining more or less in control of the vehicle.

You can't really say the same of a phone, because whatever you're doing with it is going to be distracting.

wongataa

Deleted_User said:

Car_54 said:

Ergates said:

sevenhills said:

We very rarely hear about cyclists being prosecuted or fined.

What penalties can the police give a cyclist, if they can catch them or identify them?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60722270?fbclid=IwAR39KVoz_tuJ880ygOLimXc0DmDr6YllmKBODwd35F6G-AXMlt-SG-QGHK0

A lot of the most commonly committed traffic offences (e.g. speeding or using your phone) are difficult or impossible to commit on a bike (for most people).  Also, the risks to other people are significantly lower.

Neither speeding nor phone use are offences on a bike, at least on public roads. However, I regularly see phones in use around here, and speeding is really not so difficult.

Speeding is impossible to police on a bike because bikes don't have a speedometer fitted to them.

Actually speeding is impossible on a bicycle because no speed limit applies to them (apart from possibly in the Royal Parks in London which have their own different regulations).

Speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles.  Bicycles are not motorised vehicles, ergo they are not subject to speed limits.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

[Deleted User] said:

Ergates said:

sevenhills said:

We very rarely hear about cyclists being prosecuted or fined.

What penalties can the police give a cyclist, if they can catch them or identify them?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60722270?fbclid=IwAR39KVoz_tuJ880ygOLimXc0DmDr6YllmKBODwd35F6G-AXMlt-SG-QGHK0

A lot of the most commonly committed traffic offences (e.g. speeding or using your phone) are difficult or impossible to commit on a bike (for most people).  Also, the risks to other people are significantly lower.

Neither speeding nor phone use are offences on a bike, at least on public roads. However, I regularly see phones in use around here, and speeding is really not so difficult.

Speeding is impossible to police on a bike because bikes don't have a speedometer fitted to them. 

It's far from impossible. Cyclists are occasionally prosecuted successfully for speeding in Richmond Park (and probably the other royal parks) where the speed limit applies to all vehicles, including bikes.

The cyclist may not have a speed measuring device, but the police certainly do!

You were talking about public roads, not the parks setup. In order to be penalised, you have to have a speedo like in a car as they can prove you were knowingly going too fast. As not all bikes have a GPS or similar, you cannot have a rule that says you will be penalised for speeding if you have a GPS but not if you don't.

Speeding (for motor vehicles) is a strict liability offence: it is not necessary to prove that the offender "knew" he was speeding, nor that he intended to do so. So the general lack of speedos is not a valid reason for exempting cyclists from speed limits.

The exemption probably dates from a time when breaking the speed limit on a pushbike was close to unthinkable. That is not the case today, especially with the spread of 20 mph restrictions. I see cyclists exceeding that limit almost daily. 

OK the wording is a bit off. The fact is that bikes do not have a calibrated speedo, so cannot be done for that.

Cyclists (hell, even blokes on bikes) have been able to do more than 20mph for a long time. As a reference point, the first year the average speed on the Tour de France passed 20mph was 1948, doing 20mph on the flat isn't difficult