Invalid Train ticket and fine with threat of summonds

l2eonjames

Hi,
I am currently going through a bit of an issue where I thought I brought an open return when in fact it was an open anytime "DAY" return ticket.
I was asked for my ticket when returning from Brighton and even I was oblivious to the fact that my ticket was invalid until this point. I even thought the ticket machine had issued me incorrect tickets. I contacted Trainline (online ticket company) and they had advised that the anytime day return was not the right ticket, even though on the app it shows open return.
Going back to the he inspector for (TIL), he was fair and advised me that I need to explain my story once I have been written to on this matter. 
I received a letter 5/6 months later asking about the situation and I explained myself and they simply have advised that it is my duty and responsibility to pay the correct fare and make sure I have the correct ticket before boarding which is fair enough. I have tried to appeal to there better nature and simply advised that I did not intend to pay for the wrong ticket and I made a simple mistake and to review the admin charges @ £109.10 as I feel this is unfair. 
I have since offered to pay the difference in the tickets which is £15 pounds plus even pay some form of admin charge for the time they have spend on this.
They have basically advised that I can pay £109.10 or a summons will be sent out and this will go through court.
Do I have any way of agreeing something more fair. £109.10 is extortionate and is most double the train fair and I have also paid for most of the train fair too and feel as if this is a little unfair and I am powerless.

If anyone has had similar please advise what you did or what I could do other then accept the charges of £109.10 or go to court.
Either way I feel as if I will be paying through the nose for either. more so if this goes to court

TBagpuss

No, I don't think there is much you can do other than pay the fine.

You accept that you didn't have a valid ticket and it is your responsibility to ensure that you do.

If you realised when you collected the tickets that they were wring you might have got somewhere if you'd asked the trainline to correct the issue before you travelled back, and you could still ask them for a refund, if you're sure that you booked an open return not a day return, but that's between you and trainline, it has nothing to do with the train company. 

daveyjp

Trainline, the Ryanair of the railway, are a marketing company and not a very good ticket retailer.

Errors like these are commonplace.

ThunderHoof

Absolutely outrageous for a genuine mistake, if it were any other service you'd end up having to just pay the difference, but this racket gets special government privileges to extort money from people, train services should have the same legal status as any other business where disputes go to the county court and people pay compensation, not punitive damages.

tacpot12

There is nothing you can do, other than go to court. Going to court is a lottery, but if you offer the train company £60 to settle the matter, I think the judge will not look favourably on the train company for forcing the matter into court over a £50 difference. If you stand your ground, I think the judge might side with you and order that you only pay them what you have offered. The train company will also have to consider the costs of taking you to court over £50.  

The risk is that the train company add on costs, and they judge doesn't side with you, so you end up having to pay more than the £109.10. Can you afford to pay £300 if the case goes against you?

Manxman_in_exile

Three pieces of advice:

(1) Always double check before boarding a train that you have a valid ticket.  (I speak from experience).  The only exception to this is if you board a train at a station where there are NO ticket selling facilities.  (If you do, then buy a ticket at the earliest opportunity.)

(2) Post your problem here:  Disputes & Prosecutions | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

(3) don't buy tickets from Trainline.  If you have to buy online go to the train operating company's own site.

Oh - a final piece of advice but not, I think, relevant here - if they ask you to pay a penalty fare, then just pay it and challenge it later.  Don't fail to pay it thinking you will challenge it before paying it.  That approach tends to spiral out of control...

l2eonjames

tacpot12 said:

There is nothing you can do, other than go to court. Going to court is a lottery, but if you offer the train company £60 to settle the matter, I think the judge will not look favourably on the train company for forcing the matter into court over a £50 difference. If you stand your ground, I think the judge might side with you and order that you only pay them what you have offered. The train company will also have to consider the costs of taking you to court over £50.  

The risk is that the train company add on costs, and they judge doesn't side with you, so you end up having to pay more than the £109.10. Can you afford to pay £300 if the case goes against you?

I guess I can afford £300 but I would not want to pay this kind of cost. I might try what you mentioned in your first paragraph and offer them a set amount. I have offered to pay the ticket price difference of £15 pounds and some of the admin charge as they have had to send me a couple of letters and read through the case etc.

outtatune

What incentive would there be for people to buy the right ticket if they knew that if they got caught the worse that would happen would be that they'd have to pay what they should have paid in the first place?

ThunderHoof

outtatune said:

What incentive would there be for people to buy the right ticket if they knew that if they got caught the worse that would happen would be that they'd have to pay what they should have paid in the first place?

People buy train tickets because they're honest, not because there's a penalty fare. It's been shown repeatedly that the severity of punishment doesn't influence the rate of crimes, the likelihood of getting caught does. Ergo if the train companies genuinely want to reduce fare dodgers the way to do it is to increase the rate of ticket checks.

The reality is that there are not enough fare dodgers to make that worthwhile, therefore excessive penalty fares only serve the purpose of increasing revenue, mostly from people who are innocent of any wrongful intent.

pinkshoes

So your ticket say DAY return on it but you travelled back on a different day?

How much was the ticket?

Depending on the train operator, then the penalty fare for a wrong ticket is usually £20, so as you were clearly intending to pay for your journey, and were happy to settle the matter at the time, then I would perhaps offer £20 (or whatever their penalty fare is) plus the additional £15, as it is a little unfair to add large admin charges if you were happy to pay the extra and fine on the day.

l2eonjames

pinkshoes said:

So your ticket say DAY return on it but you travelled back on a different day?

How much was the ticket?

Depending on the train operator, then the penalty fare for a wrong ticket is usually £20, so as you were clearly intending to pay for your journey, and were happy to settle the matter at the time, then I would perhaps offer £20 (or whatever their penalty fare is) plus the additional £15, as it is a little unfair to add large admin charges if you were happy to pay the extra and fine on the day.

The ticket is an anytime day return. And yes I travelled back on a different day. 
I feel that the ticket warden should have offered the option to pay a penalty and then if I wanted to I could appeal this at later stage. This was not offered.
I have since requested to pay a more reasonable amount but just has a response back to say any further emails could be used as evidence. I was not sure why I got this response as it has not been the default response until now.

I will have to battle this out in court as TIL (Transport Investigations Limited), as they do not see any reason revising the charges