Invalid Train ticket and fine with threat of summonds

Herzlos

tacpot12 said:

The risk is that the train company add on costs, and they judge doesn't side with you, so you end up having to pay more than the £109.10. Can you afford to pay £300 if the case goes against you?

For that money it'd be small claims court (I think, it's not a railway bylaw thing), so their costs would be capped.

I second the idea of splitting the difference and offering them £50ish. They might accept it but if they don't it'll make you look more reasonable and them less reasonable should it get to a judge. .They'll almost certainly lose money in taking it to court so might be happy to settle for something.

Johnmcl7

Manxman_in_exile said:

Three pieces of advice:

(1) Always double check before boarding a train that you have a valid ticket.  (I speak from experience).  The only exception to this is if you board a train at a station where there are NO ticket selling facilities.  (If you do, then buy a ticket at the earliest opportunity.)

(2) Post your problem here:  Disputes & Prosecutions | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

(3) don't buy tickets from Trainline.  If you have to buy online go to the train operating company's own site.

Oh - a final piece of advice but not, I think, relevant here - if they ask you to pay a penalty fare, then just pay it and challenge it later.  Don't fail to pay it thinking you will challenge it before paying it.  That approach tends to spiral out of control...

I'd echo the advice here particularly to post on railforums.co.uk since there's a lot of knowledgeable people there on this subject. 

OP, bear in mind there's not just the financial cost of losing in court but it's a criminal conviction.

JReacher1

You’re going to lose in court and pay much more than the penalty fare they’re currently charging you. It is annoying I know but you really should pay the fare and forget about it. 

This won’t end well for you if it goes to court. 

p00hsticks

Herzlos said:

tacpot12 said:

The risk is that the train company add on costs, and they judge doesn't side with you, so you end up having to pay more than the £109.10. Can you afford to pay £300 if the case goes against you?

For that money it'd be small claims court (I think, it's not a railway bylaw thing), so their costs would be capped.

I'm no expert but I'm not sure that's true.

I suspect that it'd count as fare evasion and be dealt with at crown court rather than as a small claims - and as Johnmcl7 says, a loss would result in a criminal conviction.

Emmia

Is this the first tine you've been caught doing this, or the second or third...?

https://www.5pb.co.uk/blog/conviction-dishonest-offence-fills-all-professionals-sense-dread

The policy from one of the train operators, which I'd imagine is similar to the policy of others.
https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/revenue-protection-prosecutions-policy

I appreciate you feel hard done by, but honestly I would just pay the fine, and avoid going to court.

Emmia

Herzlos said:

tacpot12 said:

The risk is that the train company add on costs, and they judge doesn't side with you, so you end up having to pay more than the £109.10. Can you afford to pay £300 if the case goes against you?

For that money it'd be small claims court (I think, it's not a railway bylaw thing), so their costs would be capped.

I second the idea of splitting the difference and offering them £50ish. They might accept it but if they don't it'll make you look more reasonable and them less reasonable should it get to a judge. .They'll almost certainly lose money in taking it to court so might be happy to settle for something.

They can prosecute the OP under a byelaw - OP has the paperwork you've received indicated the route they're using?

JReacher1

The problem you’ve got OP is that you’re admitting that you didn’t have a valid ticket and there arent any relevant mitigating circumstances to explain why you didn’t have a valid ticket. So it is basically fare evasion. 

Your whole legal argument is that you think the penalty fare they want to charge you is too high. That will not be seen as a valid defence. 

When this goes to court the case will last about five minutes and you’ll be found guilty and potentially get a criminal record. 

You really should just swallow your pride and pay the fine.  

giraffe69

I've no idea why op thinks this is unfair. He bought a day return and then used the return portion later than the same day. Not hard to work out that is a risk and if caught a pretty clear breach of the conditions. The idea that you only have to pay the extra if and when you are caught is not, IMO, a sensible or sustainable one. I second others that if you don't pay up this will end badly for you.

ThunderHoof

JReacher1 

When this goes to court the case will last about five minutes and you’ll be found guilty and potentially get a criminal record. 

You really should just swallow your pride and pay the fine.  

As obscene as it is to receive a criminal record for what should be a civil matter between customer and train operator, I have to agree.