APCOA - Keeper/Driver Query

dan37_dan

Many thanks as always, understood.

Problem is I see no such quote to pull from the BPA CoP , all I can see is the following, no such quote around byelaws/T&C's.

2 Signage
2.1 Requirements for signage on Railway Land are specifically referenced in Byelaws 14 (1), 14 (2) (ii) and 14 (4) (iii)
2.2 Parking operators are required to follow the principles outlined in Section 18 of the Operational Requirements in England & Wales.

I have this from the Railway byelaws so will include,

(4) Notices No person shall be subject to any penalty for breach of any of the Byelaws by disobeying a notice unless it is proved to the satisfaction of the Court before whom the complaint is laid that the notice referred to in the particular Byelaw was displayed. 

Coupon-mad

I'd quote 2.1 from the BPA CoP - but are you sure there is nothing about AOS members having to make it clear whether the charge is being pursued under byelaws or contract law terms and conditions?  I've definitely seen that said by the BPA somewhere but it may have been in response to a complaint.

Are you sure nothing in the byelaws talks about the obligation to display them 'in that place'?  Search the PDF byelaws for the word 'place' because I've also seen that phrase.

I would conclude your comments by saying that contractual terms and conditions signs are one thing but byelaws board signs quite another, and they are absent.

dan37_dan

Certainly cant see anything relatable in the BPA ASO CoP

In the byelaws I see, only item close.

(3) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place. 

1505grandad

BPA CoP dated January 2020:-

2.15 Where parking on land is subject to Byelaws you must ensure that your practices are in accordance with them or that you don’t operate a scheme that is prohibited by them. For the avoidance of doubt, land managed under Byelaws is not considered as ‘Relevant Land’ under POFA.  

Coupon-mad

Hmmm...I don't like that! Unhelpful.

What about 2.15 of the BPA CoP, any use?

dan37_dan

My legalise isnt great does that cover the DLUHC CoP? Appreciate that cant be used.

Where parking on land is subject to Byelaws you must ensure that your practices are in accordance with them or that you don’t operate a scheme that is prohibited by them. For the avoidance of doubt, land managed under Byelaws is not considered as ‘Relevant Land’ under POFA.

Seems to just say they must operate adhering to the byelaws themselves and I'm unable to offer any new evidence to the contrary. Nowhere in the byelaws does it say they cant confuse T&C's with byelaws.

Coupon-mad

Yeah, maybe leave that out and just stick with the other BPA CoP and byelaws quote you had, and make it clear that terms and conditions signs are contract law, and not the same thing as a displayed byelaws board.  A driver can't be held liable for a byelaws penalty if those byelaws are not displayed.

dan37_dan

I think the following is the best approach here, any comments

AOS CoP states (Appendix G Railway Byelaws / Section 2.2)

Parking operators are required to follow the principles outlined in Section 18 of the Operational Requirements in England & Wales.

AOS CoP states (Operational Requirements in England & Wales / Signs (19.8))

19.8 - Important: you may have to give other information on signs and notices under companies and consumer protection law and other legislation

Other Legislation would cover the Railway Byelaws themselves? which state :

Railway Byelaws Section 24 Enforcement

(4) Notices - No person shall be subject to any penalty for breach of any of the Byelaws by disobeying a notice unless it is proved to the satisfaction of the Court before whom the complaint is laid that the notice referred to in the particular Byelaw was displayed. 

I then comment on the lack of byelaw signage and that the £100 charge is obscured in their evidential picture and not prominent enough to meet the Beavis sign high bar etc.

Coupon-mad

Yes, clearly stating that terms and conditions signs are contract law, and not the same thing as a displayed byelaws board.  A driver can't be held liable for a byelaws penalty if those byelaws are not displayed.

You know you only get six days to make POPLA Comments?

dan37_dan

Many thanks, yes in hand. For info you get 7 now.

You have seven days from the date of this correspondence to provide comments on the evidence uploaded by APCOA Parking - EW.