Does an executor need to be granted Power of Attorney / Would probate office send them form Pa11?

Anonymous868

I will keep this as short & concise as possible:

A family member is the executor of my late father's will...
Has been in that role for 2-years now, but yet the will still has not been processed :: Plus she refuses to provide clear updates (to my mother - who has contact with her) as to what the current status is.

She has today sent my mother form PA11, and requested my mother to sign this.
She has claimed the probate office sent her this form, and told her my mother (1 of the beneficaries / *she herself is also one) apparently needs to sign this form.

Ths form (PA11) stipulates that my mother would be granting her (my sibling | who's also already the sole executor), the Power of Attorney over my mother, for the referenced scope typed on the form of 'administering the will/estate'... ect


This seems deeply suspicious to me, not limited to the fact that if this was a requirement for her to hold 'power of attorney' over all beneficaries, then all of us beneficiaries should also be named on that form.

But so I just wanted to seek legal clarification if this is standard practise...
That the probate office would instruct an executor to send a PA11 form to 1 of the beneficaries, stipulating that they provide that individual (the executor) the power of attorney over them personally... For the purpose of administering a will/probabte?

Mojisola

It does make sense for your mother to appoint some attorneys but it shouldn't be done this way.  It's certainly not advisable to only have one.

I don't think she's telling the truth to say that the probate office has sent the forms.

Savvy_Sue

Has your mother seen the will? 

I think PA11 would make sense IF your mother was named as a co-executor, and your sibling has only just realised that they cannot obtain probate without your mother's involvement. 

It is a very limited form of attorneyship, but I would want to be clear about why it is needed. 

Anonymous868

Hello and thanks for the replies.

My mother was never named as an executor, has only ever been a beneficary.
My sister is the sole executor.

When asked why my mum was being asked to sign this form, she was told:
''The probate office sent me this form, and told me you need to sign it if I'm to be able to proceed with the process of administering the will''.

#

And yes we have a copy of the will.
It had originally named a family friend as executor, but after a few weeks they relinquished / it was transferred to my sister.

p00hsticks

Anonymous868 said:

Hello and thanks for the replies.

My mother was never named as an executor, has only ever been a beneficary.
My sister is the sole executor.

When asked why my mum was being asked to sign this form, she was told:
''The probate office sent me this form, and told me you need to sign it if I'm to be able to proceed with the process of administering the will''.

#

And yes we have a copy of the will.
It had originally named a family friend as executor, but after a few weeks they relinquished / it was transferred to my sister.

I'm no expert, but from reading previous threads on this board, I don't believe you can 'transfer' executorship. An executor can reliquish, but can't nominate who replaces them - it's up to a close relative of the deceased to apply for a grant of representation. It may be that the probate office want/need something from your mother, as the closest relative to your father, to agree to your sister applying to administer the estate.

theoretica

Anonymous868 said:

And yes we have a copy of the will.
It had originally named a family friend as executor, but after a few weeks they relinquished / it was transferred to my sister.

Did the will mention your sister as executor at all? Is your sister one of the chief beneficiaries under the will?

 PA11 is indeed a probate form - and what may have happened is the probate office expecting your mother to have been the one to apply.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/probate-forms

getmore4less

Anonymous868 said:

Hello and thanks for the replies.

My mother was never named as an executor, has only ever been a beneficary.
My sister is the sole executor.

When asked why my mum was being asked to sign this form, she was told:
''The probate office sent me this form, and told me you need to sign it if I'm to be able to proceed with the process of administering the will''.

#

And yes we have a copy of the will.
It had originally named a family friend as executor, but after a few weeks they relinquished / it was transferred to my sister.

If the named executor(s) has renounced then next in line would be the spouse(mum).

Was sis a named executor?

If not she can only be administrator through letters of administration.

Looks like sis is trying to use  POA to act on behalf of your mum as mum has priority.

How did your sister become in charge of this?

Mum could apply or just not, then children are next in line(equally).

By asking for POA it keeps you & other siblings out.

Has a grant been issued?

Any reason mum can't administrator?

Maybe sis is up to something or does not no what she is doing.

What assets did dad have exclusively
Any joint assets
Any house how was it owned
...

RAS

Hi, any idea why the executor renounced?

The ex-executor can't nominate anyone as an alternative executor as no-one can become an executor unless they were assigned that role by the deceased. Both the ones on our mum's will renounced, so we had to sort this out.

What happens now is that the closest relative (mum in this case) applies to administer the estate (with will).

So your sister has no legal role, or right to administer the estate.

Unless she can persuade your mum to give up her right to do that.

And then it is expected that all the children have an equal right  administer the estate. So you'd do it jointly with your sister (and any other siblings). In our case, one sibling just threw their hands up and said, please sort it, so the remaining two of us applied to administer the estate (with will) with their consent.

I suspect the reason nothing effective has happened for two years is because your sister has discovered she's not legally allowed to administer the estate. And now she's being less than open about the situation.

By the way we had an absolute nightmare with one legal issue which held up everything for 6 months. And still "got probate" a year after the death.

Anonymous868

Hello and thankyou for all the replies.

The estate is pretty complex (a few properties / multiple dozen bank accounts & share... ect), thus the original executor would've been out of their depth to try being the executor, and so they relinquished theirl role as executor (by mutual-consent) 1.5-years ago.

By mutual consent my mum approved for my sister to become executor, and so as far as we were all aware she applied for the role (via the legal forms), and was granted/been operating in the role of executor for the past 1.5 years now.

#

That is why this seems very confusing/strange...
As she has held the role of executor for 1.5 years already, and apparently has already applied for probate.

Therefore we do not understand why she would now suddenly also need to hold POA over my mum (*for the alledged purpose of administering the estate), when she already is the executor, as has been for 1.5 years.

Anonymous868

Just re-read the previous above message...

I will attempted to findout from my mum what the exact process was when my sister was alledgedly granted the role of executor 1.5 years ago.

#

My mum personally is elderly + suffers from ill-health & physical-disabilities, so wouldn't be able to do the process herself.
She wanted to appoint an external solicitor as executor (for 1-year now) due to a break-down in the relationship between her & my sister, leading to very harsh reactions when she attempted to seek status updates on what progress has been made... ect

But so I will try finding-out if my sister legally has been the executor for the past 1.5years (like she has claimed to be).

poppystar

It seems very unlikely she has been as, as has already been said, she is not first in line to do this. Under the circumstances that there is a breakdown in the relationship it would seem better for your mother to appoint a solicitor to do this now rather than give your sister power of attorney. If she hasn’t been open with you to date could you trust her with the power of attorney?