To POPLA or not to POPLA

Coupon-mad

I'd put this as your very first point with its own heading, something like:

1.  UKPC misrepresented the POPLA appeals process in their first rejection letter and pretended to the BPA that a keeper who appeals after finding out about a windscreen PCN has 'admitted to driving'.  These are such serious breaches I ask that POPLA show this to John Gallagher, your Lead Adjudicator, to prevent this happening again:

In their letter dated 13th December 2020 (see attached), UKPC state:

“The notice that was issued to you was initially issued to you on your windscreen. This was then removed by yourself which you then proceeded to appeal on our website, admitting that you were the driver, as you had picked up the parking charge notice off your windscreen before leaving our car park – this is an acceptance of service of the Parking Charge Notice.”

 The letter went on to state:

“Please note further, as per the POPLA website, if you the keeper of the vehicle persist that you were not the driver of the vehicle, POPLA cannot accept your appeal. In order to appeal you need to be the driver, named on the Parking Charge Notice or doing this on behalf of someone else in these 2 categories. If you submit an appeal to POPLA in your name, they will treat you as the driver of the vehicle, and that you have admitted to be the driver of the vehicle, even though you have not admitted this in your correspondence/ appeal with UK Parking Control Ltd.”

I contend that the language used by UKPC in this letter:-

·       is a flagrant disregard of the truth 

·       is a deliberate attempt to intimidate

·       contravenes Mr Greenslade’s 2015 ruling

·       is testimony to the fact that they have failed to fully consider my appeal dated 14/10/2021, made as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle only

·       breaches the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice regarding Complaints; Challenges and Appeals (Section 23) as a review of the facts was not adequately conducted.

·       is a deliberate misrepresentation of the appeals process as their statement that POPLA will not accept appeals from Registered Keepers applies only to BPA Code of Practice: Operational Requirements in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

1505grandad

Just trying to reconcile dates mentioned in appeal:-

Para 5  -  " Upon entering the Parkside car park, the driver’s attention is drawn to a large, yellow NCP sign giving details of parking charges (see photograph 2). The driver of vehicle ********* purchased a parking ticket from the NCP machine on 19/09/2021 at 1142hrs: cost = £2.60 (see photograph 3). (Note: the PCN was issued at 1149hrs)."

"A visit to the Parkside car park on 23/10/2021 at 1500hrs provided a clear demonstration that the signage is inadequate as I observed that multiple vehicles had been issued with PCNs in similar circumstances (see photographs 4, 5 & 6)."

But in para 2  -  "In their letter dated 13th December 2020 (see attached), UKPC state:

“The notice that was issued to you was initially issued to you on your windscreen. This was then removed by yourself which you then proceeded to appeal on our website, admitting that you were the driver, as you had picked up the parking charge notice off your windscreen before leaving our car park – this is an acceptance of service of the Parking Charge Notice.”"

Is the 2020 date a typo?

BettyBooHoo

1505grandad said:

Just trying to reconcile dates mentioned in appeal:-

Para 5  -  " Upon entering the Parkside car park, the driver’s attention is drawn to a large, yellow NCP sign giving details of parking charges (see photograph 2). The driver of vehicle ********* purchased a parking ticket from the NCP machine on 19/09/2021 at 1142hrs: cost = £2.60 (see photograph 3). (Note: the PCN was issued at 1149hrs)."

"A visit to the Parkside car park on 23/10/2021 at 1500hrs provided a clear demonstration that the signage is inadequate as I observed that multiple vehicles had been issued with PCNs in similar circumstances (see photographs 4, 5 & 6)."

But in para 2  -  "In their letter dated 13th December 2020 (see attached), UKPC state:

“The notice that was issued to you was initially issued to you on your windscreen. This was then removed by yourself which you then proceeded to appeal on our website, admitting that you were the driver, as you had picked up the parking charge notice off your windscreen before leaving our car park – this is an acceptance of service of the Parking Charge Notice.”"

Is the 2020 date a typo?

1505grandad - It certainly is a typo, Thanks so much for bringing it to my attention.

BettyBooHoo

All,

Sorry to be a pain but I would be grateful for your views on the BPA response to an email I had sent to chase details of their investigation into my complaint to them - originally dated 10/01/22: (their comments in bold)

I still await details of BPA’s investigation into UKPC Ltd non compliance with the following sections of BPA CoP and, to assist your enquiries, am resubmitting some of the supporting evidence that was sent to BPA on 10/01/2022:-

• BPA CoP - Appendix C, section 7, Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 – illegible details relating to charges on the PCN (see photograph 1 ) – Please be advised this is a non-POFA Parking Charge Notice.

• BPA CoP - 19.2 – Insufficient signage (see photograph 2) – We are satisfied with the signage within the site.  

• BPA CoP - Paragraph 7 – Failure to provide evidence of landowner authorisation (see UKPC appeal response) - Please be advised that should we receive supporting evidence the operator is not permitted to enforce on private land, we will investigate the matter further. You may wish to contact the landowner directly to obtain the document.

• BPA CoP – 23.4 – Complaints, challenges & appeals (see incomplete appeal response from UKPC) – I note in your appeal you did not provide a copy of the purchased ticket. The reply was based on what was stated in your appeal.

Aside from the fact that my point re BPA CoP 23.4 was based on the UKPC appeal reply and had nothing to do with a purchased ticket (with thanks to Coupon-mad for the suggested wording for POPLA on this matter), I am interested to understand what BPA mean about it being a non-POFA PCN. Any enlightenment on this would be appreciated.

I have tried to attach an image of the PCN without success but basically, the ticket machine had misaligned the charge details which were then overtyped onto the standard text and so the amounts were illegible and so I was submitting that the PCN failed to comply with their CoP.

Also, is it significant that they have accepted my complaint as an appeal? In my POPLA letter (section 7) I have written:

While I accept that a complaint to BPA does not constitute an appeal to POPLA, by opening their investigation BPA had accepted the mitigating circumstances regarding the inability to appeal via the POPLA website and so the debt recovery process should not have been invoked.

I am now wondering whether I should reword this to indicate that BPA have accepted the term 'appeal'?

Don't hesitate to come back and tell me you are bored with this now.... I know I am!

Coupon-mad

As the BPA has stated that it is a non-POFA PCN, it means the registered keeper can't be held liable.  Show the BPA's email response as a piece of evidence.  Non-POFA means driver liability only, which is why UKPC have desperately tried to say you appealed as driver.

Also, is it significant that they have accepted my complaint as an appeal?

No, I think that was right and the POPLA code was a fair remedy.

BettyBooHoo

I am so sorry to come back again but....
Yet again I am unable to upload attachments to the POPLA website and therefore unable to submit an appeal. This happened in January when this whole debacle began.
Has anyone else experienced this? I have tried from both an Apple Ipad and Microsoft laptop. Each time I get the message: 
"Application error.
An application error has occurred and your request cannot be processed. Please accept our apologies and try again later."

D_P_Dance

Yet again I am unable to upload attachments to the POPLA website and therefore unable to submit an appeal.

Why not send by post?   Get a free  certificate of posting.

BettyBooHoo

D_P_Dance said:

Yet again I am unable to upload attachments to the POPLA website and therefore unable to submit an appeal.

Why not send by post?   Get a free  certificate of posting.

Yep, I'm happy to do that but thought I had read elsewhere not to bother with post (or was that to the Operators?)
For info I have been trying to upload a PDF document under 'Other' so don't think it' anything to do with the wrong type of document.

Umkomaas

Telephone POPLA, they are approachable. They are more likely to be able to pinpoint the problem better than a semi-detached parking forum. 

BettyBooHoo

Umkomaas said:

Telephone POPLA, they are approachable. They are more likely to be able to pinpoint the problem better than a semi-detached parking forum. 

Thanks Umkomaas - good to hear a bit of positivity about POPLA.
Apologies - I wasn’t suggesting that the forum should solve my IT issues, just wondered whether it was a common problem. Their online appeal system was taken off line for a while in January for ‘maintenance’ so I guess they may have some ongoing gremlins. 

My appeal details have been printed off and I will submit via post….. for some reason I feel a bit more in control of that rather than have them come back & dismiss it because I have sent items in the wrong format….. must be my age!! 👵🏻