CCJ - Parking fine (DCBL)

paulr23

Coupon-mad said:

paulr23 said:

Coupon-mad said:

Perfect, I think!  Told you the search would find what to copy.  Easy when you know how.

Thanks I’m not sure if 1.6.3 is relevant to say about if they served it at the address  they had on file it would have reached me instead of doing a trace?

Seems reasonable to say, because your parents live there, as you told us:

I did receive letters to my address where my car was registered to which is where I now live at again (my parents).

just a further question. Do I just email my local county court these details and attach the n244 form as well as 3 excel docs (+ title deeds) then phone them to pay?

Yes but I would also add that the Claimant's Code of Practice requires them to ensure the letters are reaching the person if intending to litigate more than 12 months after a parking event.

Attach a copy of the IPC Code of Practice page with that point circled and state that the Claimant held more than one possible address and could and should have sent their LBC to both, to try to engage with you and not just rely on any old address that popped up in your credit history.

And I'm not sure why they need title deeds (which property?) or which 'Excel docs' you are talking about?  It will be about proving you lived elsewhere in 2021, and were 'there to be found' and that the Claimant could have served letters to the DVLA address or found you at your current address.  Assuming a temporary address from 2020 was still good for service in late 2021 is just not good enough conduct by the Claimant.

Any WS must end with the statement of truth and your signature and date (see second post of Newbies thread).

also at the hearing would I mention that the claimant has to pay court fees.

At the end of your oral submission about why you didn't get the claim form, you would try asking for that to be ordered (or for costs to be 'reserved' until the PCN hearing) but they don't 'have to' pay it unless you convince the Judge they acted wholly unreasonably.

You need to know, you may not get the £275 ordered to be paid back to you.  Often it is, but not always.

Also, expect the Judge to ask a brief outline of the basis on which you intend to defend the PCN, should he/she allow the CCJ set aside.  You will need to know  what a defence looks like so read lots of similar court claim threads in the meantime, before the hearing.

I assume the parking firm is Excel?  Or who?

Sorry, the parking firm is UKPC LTD, I meant to say 3 word docs not Excel docs.

The title deeds are of the house which the judgment was sent to which effectively show the proprietor of the property at a certain date (which isnt me ofc) of 12.10.2020 when I sold this, although I moved out a long time before that back to my parents which they had the address of initially as that's where previous correspondence was going.

"Yes but I would also add that the Claimant's Code of Practice requires them to ensure the letters are reaching the person if intending to litigate more than 12 months after a parking event.

Attach a copy of the IPC Code of Practice page with that point circled and state that the Claimant held more than one possible address and could and should have sent their LBC to both, to try to engage with you and not just rely on any old address that popped up in your credit history." 

where would I put this, on a separate part or within one of my forms? 

In defence of the PCN I will mention that I was parked in a visitors parking spot in a residential area so I didn't feel like there was any damages and I was not liable to pay as I was in visitors parking.

Are signatures on word ok? Or do I have to print it out and sign

paulr23

I don't feel like I've done this correct, my witness statement is very short and effectively contains similar to my draft order. The default judgment form contains most of the detail of the claim etc. Is that right?

or is the default judgement and witness statement one file? just separate headings within. I think that might be where im being confused

Coupon-mad

Only the Draft Order is a Word doc.

The others are saved as PDFs once you've signed and dated your WS under a statement of truth.

If it's UKPC then it's the BPA Code of Practice, not the IPC page that you need to attach, but the rest of my advice stands.

I don't get the relevance of Title Deeds?

or is the default judgement and witness statement one file? just separate headings within. 

Yes.  All part of the WS, headed up with the claim number and parties and court name, just as you see all examples of WS on the forum. 

Coupon-mad

dcblbeaten said:

Maybe you should have just paid the £60 save all this hassle.

Parking firms would say so. Luckily, canny consumers, MPs and the DLUHC disagree.

Hassle can be worth the time & trouble if it sorts out the rogue element of an industry, for example, or to fight business models that are unfair or dysfunctional.

It was hassle for us regulars to post here to help people for no reward for all these  years.

It was hassle for all those good people who stood up and were counted by submitting responses to the MHCLG (as it then was) to counter the PPCs flooding the two Public Consultations by masquerading as consumers.

It was hassle for me to attend endless (long and tiring) Steering Group meetings for 18 months and provide loads of detailed and relevant evidence to the DLUHC to help to get the new Code to a robust state, to properly protect consumers.

Absolutely worth the hassle.

Thanks to the Government's intervention, rogue PPCs' days are numbered.  Those that het through this will be all the better for it.

paulr23

Coupon-mad said:

Only the Draft Order is a Word doc.

The others are saved as PDFs once you've signed and dated your WS under a statement of truth.

If it's UKPC then it's the BPA Code of Practice, not the IPC page that you need to attach, but the rest of my advice stands.

I don't get the relevance of Title Deeds?

or is the default judgement and witness statement one file? just separate headings within. 

Yes.  All part of the WS, headed up with the claim number and parties and court name, just as you see all examples of WS on the forum. 

Ok thanks I’ll remember to do the BPA one. 

the relevance of The title deeds are to prove I wasn’t living in that address at that time when the judgement was sent  

paulr23

Coupon-mad said:

dcblbeaten said:

Maybe you should have just paid the £60 save all this hassle.

Parking firms would say so. Luckily, canny consumers, MPs and the DLUHC disagree.

It was hassle for us regulars to post here to help people for no reward for all these  years.

It was hassle for all those good people who stood up and were counted by submitting responses to the MHCLG (as it then was) to counter the PPCs flooding the two Public Consultations by masquerading as consumers.

It was hassle for me to attend endless (long and tiring) Steering Group meetings for 18 months and provide loads of detailed and relevant evidence to the DLUHC to help to get the new Code to a robust state, to properly protect consumers.

Absolutely worth the hassle.

Rogue PPCs' days are numbered.

Deleted his comment or it got removed. 😂

paulr23

dcblbeaten said:

This forum does not seem to like dissenting opinions which differ from the so called regulars

Your comment wasn’t helpful, useful and really didn’t offer anything. 

Ever heard of the phrase “got nothing nice to say then….”

paulr23

So is it useful to attach the title deeds where the LBC letters would have gone to to prove I wasn’t living there then? I sold the house prior to them sending the LBC

paulr23

Coupon-mad said:

Only the Draft Order is a Word doc.

The others are saved as PDFs once you've signed and dated your WS under a statement of truth.

If it's UKPC then it's the BPA Code of Practice, not the IPC page that you need to attach, but the rest of my advice stands.

I don't get the relevance of Title Deeds?

or is the default judgement and witness statement one file? just separate headings within. 

Yes.  All part of the WS, headed up with the claim number and parties and court name, just as you see all examples of WS on the forum. 

Ok just a few last questions.

Do I need to print and sign WS or is it ok just writing it?

Title deeds are to show that I sold the property before LBC was sent.

I can't find a similar reference regarding the 12 month rule in the BPA code of practice, not sure if you can help but I've definitely looked on there. - NVM is it section 23.1.c?

Coupon-mad

You have to sign and date a WS under a statement of truth so personally I'd print it then scan it and save as a PDF.  If no access to a scanner then sign & date it with an electronic signature.

The Draft Order must be a Word doc because the idea is you are supplying a document that you hope the Judge will use.

There is no '12 month' rule exactly, but there IS something along the lines of what I described.  Not sure what paragraph.   It's vital, to show that AOS members are required to be sure their letters are reaching the defendant before litigation.

I think title deeds are a bit bulky and evidentially unnecessary.  What about a completion of sale letter from your solicitor and a utility or council tax bill from your new address for the month after?  Proves you moved out.