Enterprise are trying to take all our savings

Manxman_in_exile

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

k18dan said:

Who knows what they would have done in that situation, but it sounds like you did what felt right to you at the time.

That's probably the fairest comment I have seen in the entire thread.  Very easy to know exactly what somebody else should have done when you aren't in the likely state of shock that the driver would have been in.

Well I know what I'd do.  In the only road traffic accident I've been involved in the first thing I did - after checking I was ok and the other driver was ok - was contact the police.  I didn't do so because another car was involved, I did so because the road needed to be cleared and because it seemed the sensible thing to do anyway.

I must admit I'm not clear what the effects of the recent Highway Code changes are, but I thought the very clear advice in there was that if you suffer a breakdown on the motorway and end up on the hard shoulder (which seems to be what the OP says happened to them) then your first action after safely exiting the car, if you aren't right next to an emergency 'phone, is to call 999 and ask for the police, or have I got that wrong?

If that's the advice for breakdowns on the motorway in the UK, I'm pretty sure I'd expect something similar on the Autobahn.  

And if I were driving a hire car in Germany - or any other foreign country - I'd make damn' sure I understood fully the terms of my insurance.  I note the OP still hasn't come back to confirm whether or not the term Enterprise is relying on is in the insurance they signed up to.

Is that the advice? If so it's not good advice calling an emergency service for them to pass on your details to send Highways England.

I thought it was - but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood it.  (I've just looked it up after reading your post and I must admit I don't find the web version as user friendly or as clear as the old paper booklet).

"...if you are unable to exit your vehicle or if you have not stopped near a free emergency telephone, call 999 immediately and ask for the police. Alternatively, press your SOS button if your vehicle has one and ask for the police"

If I've understood it correctly, it appears to be part of Rule 277

Breakdowns and incidents (275 to 287) - The Highway Code - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if I suffered a blown tyre on the motorway and ended up on the hard shoulder  - but not close to an emergency 'phone - I would interpret that advice to be to dial 999 and ask for the police.

If the advice is not to contact the police, then I think that that could be made clearer.  But it seems common sense to me anyway.

user1977

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

k18dan said:

Who knows what they would have done in that situation, but it sounds like you did what felt right to you at the time.

That's probably the fairest comment I have seen in the entire thread.  Very easy to know exactly what somebody else should have done when you aren't in the likely state of shock that the driver would have been in.

Well I know what I'd do.  In the only road traffic accident I've been involved in the first thing I did - after checking I was ok and the other driver was ok - was contact the police.  I didn't do so because another car was involved, I did so because the road needed to be cleared and because it seemed the sensible thing to do anyway.

I must admit I'm not clear what the effects of the recent Highway Code changes are, but I thought the very clear advice in there was that if you suffer a breakdown on the motorway and end up on the hard shoulder (which seems to be what the OP says happened to them) then your first action after safely exiting the car, if you aren't right next to an emergency 'phone, is to call 999 and ask for the police, or have I got that wrong?

If that's the advice for breakdowns on the motorway in the UK, I'm pretty sure I'd expect something similar on the Autobahn.  

And if I were driving a hire car in Germany - or any other foreign country - I'd make damn' sure I understood fully the terms of my insurance.  I note the OP still hasn't come back to confirm whether or not the term Enterprise is relying on is in the insurance they signed up to.

Is that the advice? If so it's not good advice calling an emergency service for them to pass on your details to send Highways England.

I thought it was - but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood it.  (I've just looked it up after reading your post and I must admit I don't find the web version as user friendly or as clear as the old paper booklet).

"...if you are unable to exit your vehicle or if you have not stopped near a free emergency telephone, call 999 immediately and ask for the police. Alternatively, press your SOS button if your vehicle has one and ask for the police"

If I've understood it correctly, it appears to be part of Rule 277

Breakdowns and incidents (275 to 287) - The Highway Code - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if I suffered a blown tyre on the motorway and ended up on the hard shoulder  - but not close to an emergency 'phone - I would interpret that advice to be to dial 999 and ask for the police.

If the advice is not to contact the police, then I think that that could be made clearer.  But it seems common sense to me anyway.

It's a bit ambiguous - initially it says it's what you should do if you can't get your vehicle to a place of relative safety and exit the vehicle i.e. you've stopped in a live lane or for some reason can't get out and stand on the verge. But later suggests you should phone 999 if you're not "near" an emergency phone - given how close together the phones generally are, I'm not sure when that would apply (unless the phones are out of order of course which does sometimes happen). Not sure the police would be impressed if you simply couldn't be ar5ed walking to the phone.

Manxman_in_exile

mobileron said:

Ensure u cancel or lose the credit card,if it was booked in Germany.

Pollycat said:

mobileron said:

Ensure u cancel or lose the credit card,if it was booked in Germany.

Would that work if Enterprise take the OP to court?

@Pollycat -  I think you're right - except I don't see how mobileron's advice would work even if they didn't take the OP to court... 

DB1904

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

k18dan said:

Who knows what they would have done in that situation, but it sounds like you did what felt right to you at the time.

That's probably the fairest comment I have seen in the entire thread.  Very easy to know exactly what somebody else should have done when you aren't in the likely state of shock that the driver would have been in.

Well I know what I'd do.  In the only road traffic accident I've been involved in the first thing I did - after checking I was ok and the other driver was ok - was contact the police.  I didn't do so because another car was involved, I did so because the road needed to be cleared and because it seemed the sensible thing to do anyway.

I must admit I'm not clear what the effects of the recent Highway Code changes are, but I thought the very clear advice in there was that if you suffer a breakdown on the motorway and end up on the hard shoulder (which seems to be what the OP says happened to them) then your first action after safely exiting the car, if you aren't right next to an emergency 'phone, is to call 999 and ask for the police, or have I got that wrong?

If that's the advice for breakdowns on the motorway in the UK, I'm pretty sure I'd expect something similar on the Autobahn.  

And if I were driving a hire car in Germany - or any other foreign country - I'd make damn' sure I understood fully the terms of my insurance.  I note the OP still hasn't come back to confirm whether or not the term Enterprise is relying on is in the insurance they signed up to.

Is that the advice? If so it's not good advice calling an emergency service for them to pass on your details to send Highways England.

I thought it was - but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood it.  (I've just looked it up after reading your post and I must admit I don't find the web version as user friendly or as clear as the old paper booklet).

"...if you are unable to exit your vehicle or if you have not stopped near a free emergency telephone, call 999 immediately and ask for the police. Alternatively, press your SOS button if your vehicle has one and ask for the police"

If I've understood it correctly, it appears to be part of Rule 277

Breakdowns and incidents (275 to 287) - The Highway Code - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if I suffered a blown tyre on the motorway and ended up on the hard shoulder  - but not close to an emergency 'phone - I would interpret that advice to be to dial 999 and ask for the police.

If the advice is not to contact the police, then I think that that could be made clearer.  But it seems common sense to me anyway.

Stopped on the hard shoulder with a puncture is not a police matter. Stopped in a live lane would be. It's seems to be written assuming every motorway is a smart motorway with no hard shoulder. 

MattMattMattUK

Ergates said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Ergates said:

ElefantEd said:

Alderbank said:

The police need to know very quickly about an incident so they can decide whether to actuate overhead speed limits. A driver at 300kps needs plenty of warning.

And brown trousers! 675000 mph is surely illegal even on autobahns.

On the other hand, at that speed your number plate would be a rapidly spreading cloud of superheated plasma, so you probably couldn't be given a ticket.

You would also be on your way into space, escape velocity is around 25,000 mph, that is one very fast fireball going up into the sky.

The longest stretch of unregulated Autobahn is 150km - you'd cover that in 0.5 seconds.   I wonder what the stopping speed is from 675000 mph - considering that your tyres and brakes would also be superheated plasma.

It depends how you stop, I mean technically the disassociated matter could stop at some point, it would either be when it hit something in space after going above escape velocity, or when it hit something on the ground, in which case depending on it's construction it would either vaporise, or incinerate. I mean it might stop moving, but by "it" I only mean the mess of what it once was. Depending on what it hit though the stopping distance could be quite short, for a ball entirely composed of plasma even just a few mm as it pancaked and melted the surface of what it hit. 

Ergates

MattMattMattUK said:

Ergates said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Ergates said:

ElefantEd said:

Alderbank said:

The police need to know very quickly about an incident so they can decide whether to actuate overhead speed limits. A driver at 300kps needs plenty of warning.

And brown trousers! 675000 mph is surely illegal even on autobahns.

On the other hand, at that speed your number plate would be a rapidly spreading cloud of superheated plasma, so you probably couldn't be given a ticket.

You would also be on your way into space, escape velocity is around 25,000 mph, that is one very fast fireball going up into the sky.

The longest stretch of unregulated Autobahn is 150km - you'd cover that in 0.5 seconds.   I wonder what the stopping speed is from 675000 mph - considering that your tyres and brakes would also be superheated plasma.

It depends how you stop, I mean technically the disassociated matter could stop at some point, it would either be when it hit something in space after going above escape velocity, or when it hit something on the ground, in which case depending on it's construction it would either vaporise, or incinerate. I mean it might stop moving, but by "it" I only mean the mess of what it once was. Depending on what it hit though the stopping distance could be quite short, for a ball entirely composed of plasma even just a few mm as it pancaked and melted the surface of what it hit. 

TBH, I'm not sure you'd get as far as space.   

This relates to a baseball moving at 0.9C in atmosphere, rather than this car moving and 0.001C - but I believe the overall effects might be somewhat similar (though perhaps not *quite* as dramatic).

Relativistic Baseball (xkcd.com)

Pollycat

Manxman_in_exile said:

mobileron said:

Ensure u cancel or lose the credit card,if it was booked in Germany.

Pollycat said:

mobileron said:

Ensure u cancel or lose the credit card,if it was booked in Germany.

Would that work if Enterprise take the OP to court?

@Pollycat -  I think you're right - except I don't see how mobileron's advice would work even if they didn't take the OP to court... 

Yes, you're right.

I was just thinking that cancelling a credit card in a situation where you may be taken to court wasn't a great idea.
Of course, if someone makes a purchase using a credit card and there is a problem, simply cancelling the card won't help.
  

Manxman_in_exile

user1977 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

k18dan said:

Who knows what they would have done in that situation, but it sounds like you did what felt right to you at the time.

That's probably the fairest comment I have seen in the entire thread.  Very easy to know exactly what somebody else should have done when you aren't in the likely state of shock that the driver would have been in.

Well I know what I'd do.  In the only road traffic accident I've been involved in the first thing I did - after checking I was ok and the other driver was ok - was contact the police.  I didn't do so because another car was involved, I did so because the road needed to be cleared and because it seemed the sensible thing to do anyway.

I must admit I'm not clear what the effects of the recent Highway Code changes are, but I thought the very clear advice in there was that if you suffer a breakdown on the motorway and end up on the hard shoulder (which seems to be what the OP says happened to them) then your first action after safely exiting the car, if you aren't right next to an emergency 'phone, is to call 999 and ask for the police, or have I got that wrong?

If that's the advice for breakdowns on the motorway in the UK, I'm pretty sure I'd expect something similar on the Autobahn.  

And if I were driving a hire car in Germany - or any other foreign country - I'd make damn' sure I understood fully the terms of my insurance.  I note the OP still hasn't come back to confirm whether or not the term Enterprise is relying on is in the insurance they signed up to.

Is that the advice? If so it's not good advice calling an emergency service for them to pass on your details to send Highways England.

I thought it was - but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood it.  (I've just looked it up after reading your post and I must admit I don't find the web version as user friendly or as clear as the old paper booklet).

"...if you are unable to exit your vehicle or if you have not stopped near a free emergency telephone, call 999 immediately and ask for the police. Alternatively, press your SOS button if your vehicle has one and ask for the police"

If I've understood it correctly, it appears to be part of Rule 277

Breakdowns and incidents (275 to 287) - The Highway Code - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if I suffered a blown tyre on the motorway and ended up on the hard shoulder  - but not close to an emergency 'phone - I would interpret that advice to be to dial 999 and ask for the police.

If the advice is not to contact the police, then I think that that could be made clearer.  But it seems common sense to me anyway.

It's a big ambiguous - initially it says it's what you should do if you can't get your vehicle to a place of relative safety and exit the vehicle i.e. you've stopped in a live lane or for some reason can't get out and stand on the verge. But later suggests you should phone 999 if you're not "near" an emergency phone - given how close together the phones generally are, I'm not sure when that would apply (unless the phones are out of order of course which does sometimes happen). Not sure the police would be impressed if you simply couldn't be ar5ed walking to the phone.

I'm more than happy to be shown I'm wrong, but I've just read it again and I don't think it actually is ambiguous at all - although I agree it may not say what it was intended to say!

"Rule 277

If your vehicle develops a problem, leave the carriageway at the next exit or pull into a service area if possible (see Rule 275 for places of relative safety). If you cannot, you should   [my bold]

Go left

• move into the left lane
• pull into an emergency area or onto a hard shoulder if you can... "    [ my bold again]

There follow two sub-headings similar to Go left  -  and they are Get Safe and Get help.  The bit about contacting the police is under the latter sub-heading.

My understanding of that is that if (1) you can't either leave at the next exit or pull into a service area, then (2)you follow the advice given in the following three sub-headings, (3) part of which is to pull onto the hard shoulder if you can, and (4) another part of that advice is to contact the police if you aren't close to an emergency 'phone.

But I'm not particularly bothered about the nuances of the UK Highway Code or how far apart emergency phones are or the likely reaction of the police if you called them.

What I'm more concerned about is that drivers perhaps ought to be aware that if they breakdown and end up on the hard shoulder of the motorway (or Autobahn), then they should consider alerting the police or emergency services in the first instance rather than ringing up their hire company first.

If I was driving an Enterprise hire car on the M1 and ended up on the hard shoulder after a blowout, calling Enterprise wouldn't be my first and only thought...  

Manxman_in_exile

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

k18dan said:

Who knows what they would have done in that situation, but it sounds like you did what felt right to you at the time.

That's probably the fairest comment I have seen in the entire thread.  Very easy to know exactly what somebody else should have done when you aren't in the likely state of shock that the driver would have been in.

Well I know what I'd do.  In the only road traffic accident I've been involved in the first thing I did - after checking I was ok and the other driver was ok - was contact the police.  I didn't do so because another car was involved, I did so because the road needed to be cleared and because it seemed the sensible thing to do anyway.

I must admit I'm not clear what the effects of the recent Highway Code changes are, but I thought the very clear advice in there was that if you suffer a breakdown on the motorway and end up on the hard shoulder (which seems to be what the OP says happened to them) then your first action after safely exiting the car, if you aren't right next to an emergency 'phone, is to call 999 and ask for the police, or have I got that wrong?

If that's the advice for breakdowns on the motorway in the UK, I'm pretty sure I'd expect something similar on the Autobahn.  

And if I were driving a hire car in Germany - or any other foreign country - I'd make damn' sure I understood fully the terms of my insurance.  I note the OP still hasn't come back to confirm whether or not the term Enterprise is relying on is in the insurance they signed up to.

Is that the advice? If so it's not good advice calling an emergency service for them to pass on your details to send Highways England.

I thought it was - but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood it.  (I've just looked it up after reading your post and I must admit I don't find the web version as user friendly or as clear as the old paper booklet).

"...if you are unable to exit your vehicle or if you have not stopped near a free emergency telephone, call 999 immediately and ask for the police. Alternatively, press your SOS button if your vehicle has one and ask for the police"

If I've understood it correctly, it appears to be part of Rule 277

Breakdowns and incidents (275 to 287) - The Highway Code - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if I suffered a blown tyre on the motorway and ended up on the hard shoulder  - but not close to an emergency 'phone - I would interpret that advice to be to dial 999 and ask for the police.

If the advice is not to contact the police, then I think that that could be made clearer.  But it seems common sense to me anyway.

Stopped on the hard shoulder with a puncture is not a police matter. Stopped in a live lane would be. It's seems to be written assuming every motorway is a smart motorway with no hard shoulder. 

Fair enough - although stopped on the hard shoulder after a tyre has blown (rather than just a puncture) with possible debris on the carriageway might be a bit more serious (and even more so on the Autobahn).

DB1904

Manxman_in_exile said:

user1977 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

DB1904 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

k18dan said:

Who knows what they would have done in that situation, but it sounds like you did what felt right to you at the time.

That's probably the fairest comment I have seen in the entire thread.  Very easy to know exactly what somebody else should have done when you aren't in the likely state of shock that the driver would have been in.

Well I know what I'd do.  In the only road traffic accident I've been involved in the first thing I did - after checking I was ok and the other driver was ok - was contact the police.  I didn't do so because another car was involved, I did so because the road needed to be cleared and because it seemed the sensible thing to do anyway.

I must admit I'm not clear what the effects of the recent Highway Code changes are, but I thought the very clear advice in there was that if you suffer a breakdown on the motorway and end up on the hard shoulder (which seems to be what the OP says happened to them) then your first action after safely exiting the car, if you aren't right next to an emergency 'phone, is to call 999 and ask for the police, or have I got that wrong?

If that's the advice for breakdowns on the motorway in the UK, I'm pretty sure I'd expect something similar on the Autobahn.  

And if I were driving a hire car in Germany - or any other foreign country - I'd make damn' sure I understood fully the terms of my insurance.  I note the OP still hasn't come back to confirm whether or not the term Enterprise is relying on is in the insurance they signed up to.

Is that the advice? If so it's not good advice calling an emergency service for them to pass on your details to send Highways England.

I thought it was - but I'm happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood it.  (I've just looked it up after reading your post and I must admit I don't find the web version as user friendly or as clear as the old paper booklet).

"...if you are unable to exit your vehicle or if you have not stopped near a free emergency telephone, call 999 immediately and ask for the police. Alternatively, press your SOS button if your vehicle has one and ask for the police"

If I've understood it correctly, it appears to be part of Rule 277

Breakdowns and incidents (275 to 287) - The Highway Code - Guidance - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if I suffered a blown tyre on the motorway and ended up on the hard shoulder  - but not close to an emergency 'phone - I would interpret that advice to be to dial 999 and ask for the police.

If the advice is not to contact the police, then I think that that could be made clearer.  But it seems common sense to me anyway.

It's a big ambiguous - initially it says it's what you should do if you can't get your vehicle to a place of relative safety and exit the vehicle i.e. you've stopped in a live lane or for some reason can't get out and stand on the verge. But later suggests you should phone 999 if you're not "near" an emergency phone - given how close together the phones generally are, I'm not sure when that would apply (unless the phones are out of order of course which does sometimes happen). Not sure the police would be impressed if you simply couldn't be ar5ed walking to the phone.

I'm more than happy to be shown I'm wrong, but I've just read it again and I don't think it actually is ambiguous at all - although I agree it may not say what it was intended to say!

"Rule 277

If your vehicle develops a problem, leave the carriageway at the next exit or pull into a service area if possible (see Rule 275 for places of relative safety). If you cannot, you should   [my bold]

Go left

• move into the left lane
• pull into an emergency area or onto a hard shoulder if you can... "    [ my bold again]

There follow two sub-headings similar to Go left  -  and they are Get Safe and Get help.  The bit about contacting the police is under the latter sub-heading.

My understanding of that is that if (1) you can't either leave at the next exit or pull into a service area, then (2)you follow the advice given in the following three sub-headings, (3) part of which is to pull onto the hard shoulder if you can, and (4) another part of that advice is to contact the police if you aren't close to an emergency 'phone.

But I'm not particularly bothered about the nuances of the UK Highway Code or how far apart emergency phones are or the likely reaction of the police if you called them.

What I'm more concerned about is that drivers perhaps ought to be aware that if they breakdown and end up on the hard shoulder of the motorway (or Autobahn), then they should consider alerting the police or emergency services in the first instance rather than ringing up their hire company first.

If I was driving an Enterprise hire car on the M1 and ended up on the hard shoulder after a blowout, calling Enterprise wouldn't be my first and only thought...  

Out of interest if you ended up on the hard shoulder which was not being used as Lane 1, exited the vehicle and were stood the other side of a crash barrier. Why would you think it is a matter for the police?