heavy sprung mortice locks

Norman_Castle

wallofbeans said:

Thats a sashlock which is a mortice latch and a mortice lock in one casing. If you dont want a keyed lock for the bathroom you could ignore the lock and fit a bolt inside.

Why are the holes for the handle screws filled, have they always been like that?

Have you tried lubricating the current latches and handles?

Swapping the latch direction is easy. On the lock pictured remove the two screws on the latch.

wallofbeans

Norman_Castle said:

wallofbeans said:

Thats a sashlock which is a mortice latch and a mortice lock in one casing. If you dont want a keyed lock for the bathroom you could ignore the lock and fit a bolt inside.

Why are the holes for the handle screws filled, have they always been like that?

Have you tried lubricating the current latches and handles?

Swapping the latch direction is easy. On the lock pictured remove the two screws on the latch.

Ignore the lock and fit a bolt inside? I've seen that there are specific bathroom locks that have a turn thing instead of a key and I thought that might work. 

I'm getting new handles and even though I might be able to use the old screw holes, they were barely olding the old door knob on and so I filled them to give a bit more purchase should I need to use them again.

The latch pictured is the old one, which doesn't work and needs replacing - and I wondered how to make sure others have that easily switching latch. I previously bought a Yale sashlock that had to be taken apart to be switched, and I want to avoid that in future.

BUFF

wallofbeans said:

Ignore the lock and fit a bolt inside? I've seen that there are specific bathroom locks that have a turn thing instead of a key and I thought that might work. 

The latch pictured is the old one, which doesn't work and needs replacing - and I wondered how to make sure others have that easily switching latch. I previously bought a Yale sashlock that had to be taken apart to be switched, and I want to avoid that in future.

Bathroom sashlocks are designed for use with a turn - they aren't keyed. When used with an appropriate turn/indicator they also allow emergency access from outside. 

What finish of forend do you want & I'll try to link you to an appropriate?
Have you picked out which new handles you are getting (if so, which)?

wallofbeans

BUFF said:

wallofbeans said:

Ignore the lock and fit a bolt inside? I've seen that there are specific bathroom locks that have a turn thing instead of a key and I thought that might work. 

The latch pictured is the old one, which doesn't work and needs replacing - and I wondered how to make sure others have that easily switching latch. I previously bought a Yale sashlock that had to be taken apart to be switched, and I want to avoid that in future.

Bathroom sashlocks are designed for use with a turn - they aren't keyed. When used with an appropriate turn/indicator they also allow emergency access from outside. 

What finish of forend do you want & I'll try to link you to an appropriate?
Have you picked out which new handles you are getting (if so, which)?

I've had a look at bathroom locks and 'turn and release' mechanisms. This would work great if it can be done but, like I said before I have no problem going with a key if that's necessary.

I've not bought replacement door knobs yet, but I'd like vintage ones and include the below as a potential example. I've also attached a photo of a turn that I found available and have been suggested a 'Union 2294 Bathroom lock 76mm' might work. 

I'd be grateful of your advice on this, thank you so much!

BUFF

you definitely want knobs & a separate turn/indicator rather than a lever bathroom set? e.g.

That turn & indicator/release is a modernish style & may jar visually with traditional door knobs.
The Union 2294 isn't suitable for unsprung furniture (it would work with the levers shown as they are sprung).

wallofbeans

BUFF said:

you definitely want knobs & a separate turn/indicator rather than a lever bathroom set? e.g.

That turn & indicator/release is a modernish style & may jar visually with traditional door knobs.
The Union 2294 isn't suitable for unsprung furniture (it would work with the levers shown as they are sprung).

Definitely don't want a lever handle. Antique door knobs all the way, and I assume none will be sprung. 

Union themselves told me that their 2295 lock would work with antique unsprung door knobs and so I assumed the bathroom version would be the same, but maybe they are giving me bad advice or the bathroom ones are different... I have queried their advice as I saw that the specs on their website say they are "suitable for lightweight knobs or sprung handles" which is not what I have - and I was very clear on that.

I don't mind the turn being more modern, as long as it's simple. But yes, perhaps sticking with key would make more sense.

Can you advise on locks that will work with vintage unsprung door knobs?

wallofbeans

And FYI this is what Iron Mongery Direct recommended:

Key version:
https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/altro-3-lever-sashlock-78mm-case-57mm-backset-satin-stainless-steel-332049

Bathroom version:
https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/altro-bathroom-lock-78mm-case-57mm-backset-satin-stainless-steel-304827

Do you think these are these are better choice than what Union suggested?

wallofbeans

I could also go with vintage brass door knobs and get a period style turn to go with:

https://theperiodironmonger.co.uk/product/round-bathroom-thumbturn-nickel-or-brass-polished-brass-unlacquered-83825-83825

But I doubt these things even existed in that period and so will always feel somewhat modernised. The way to be more authentic is to have a key I suppose.

BUFF

From Union "suitable for lightweight knobs or sprung handles" 
https://www.uniononline.co.uk/uk/en/products/locks-and-cylinders/lever-locks/2-lever-locks/2295-2-lever-sashlock
 
You can get sprung traditional style knobs you just have to look. Levers tend to be used more due to accessibility concerns.
You can also get hollow cast knobs which are lighter (so easier on latch springs). Because they use less material than solid they are often also cheaper.

Those Ironmongery Direct locks again are meant to be used with sprung furniture. 
I notice that in the Q&A's Screwfix say that this is suitable for unsprung https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-polished-chrome-bathroom-mortice-lock-76mm-case-57mm-backset/1840g
This looks to be the equivalent keyed https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-3-lever-nickel-plated-mortice-sashlock-76mm-case-57mm-backset/1634g


Originally, they probably just used an internal bolt for a bathroom - but your door is already cut out for a sashlock (I suspect that room wasn't originally a bathroom or a door from elsewhere was reused).

wallofbeans

BUFF said:

From Union "suitable for lightweight knobs or sprung handles" 
https://www.uniononline.co.uk/uk/en/products/locks-and-cylinders/lever-locks/2-lever-locks/2295-2-lever-sashlock
 
You can get sprung traditional style knobs you just have to look. Levers tend to be used more due to accessibility concerns.
You can also get hollow cast knobs which are lighter (so easier on latch springs). Because they use less material than solid they are often also cheaper.

Those Ironmongery Direct locks again are meant to be used with sprung furniture. 
I notice that in the Q&A's Screwfix say that this is suitable for unsprung https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-polished-chrome-bathroom-mortice-lock-76mm-case-57mm-backset/1840g
This looks to be the equivalent keyed https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-3-lever-nickel-plated-mortice-sashlock-76mm-case-57mm-backset/1634g


Originally, they probably just used an internal bolt for a bathroom - but your door is already cut out for a sashlock (I suspect that room wasn't originally a bathroom or a door from elsewhere was reused).

I only want to use actual antique door knobs if possible, rather than tradditonal style ones, and I don't think any old door knobs are sprung. I didn't realise that getting locks to work with them would be so complicated though!

Just like Union, I'm confused as to why Iron Mongery Direct would recommend those for use with unsprung antique door knobs when they aren't actually suitable. Both they and Union seemed so confident in their suggestions! The Iron Mongery suggestions do say "medium duty" springs, and I was told by another online retailer that medium sprung (as opposed to light or heavy) is what I should be getting for unsprung door knobs, so they seemed the best match so far.

The Screwfix ones look interesting too, but I can't see any mention of the spring type (light, medium or heavy) in the description but your right the Q&A does say they will work. I wonder what it is about these particular ones that means they will work over others?

I agree, this is a victorian two bed that was probably a three bed with a downstairs or outside bathroom originally. This door has probably been repurposed from elsewhere. I'd prefer to just have a bolt across but it seemed smart to use the holes in the door for the lock as it's already there and I have no seemless way of dealing with the hole otherwise.

Thanks again for all the help.

I wish I could buy a few of these locks and try them out with unsprung door knobs before commiting to fitting or buying them!