Builder retrospective charges

Beedoo

We’ve had builders do a huge expensive renovation.  On completion they issued a final quote including variations.  We agreed to this although there were some extras we didn’t know if he’d also thrown in some things he didn’t have to do for free and overall it seemed fair.  

A little later we discovered they had damaged our patio.  Dispite providing photographic evidence as per our contract he has denied this is his fault either saying he had witnesses saying it was not new beforehand or that it was inevitable due to works.  They’d made no attempt to protect the patio whatsoever and when they left it was caked in cement.  We were very clear throughout it was to be retained.

He is demanding we get an independent surveyor report to assess the damage but our contract says ‘photographic evidence’.  We have provided this and are unwilling to pay for a surveyor.  We’ve said we’ll pay for the paving if he lays it as the patio was not new, so we think that’s fair.  We are already out of pocket so we do not want to spend more to prove something that is obvious from a photo.

He is now trying to charge us for ‘variations he was willing to waive’ because we’ve tried to get compensation for this damage.  Some of these were offered for free and others covered by a general item of ‘garden work’ in our quote.  The only ‘waiver’ we are aware of is for slips where he told us he charged us for fewer than used.  

We are also waiting for all certs and warranties from him.

Can a builder charge us for work he previously agreed not to?

macman

What does your contract say about variations to the spec? Any vague verbal agreement not to charge will come down to your word against his.

Section62

Beedoo said:

We’ve had builders do a huge expensive renovation.  On completion they issued a final quote including variations.  We agreed to this although there were some extras we didn’t know if he’d also thrown in some things he didn’t have to do for free and overall it seemed fair.  

A little later we discovered they had damaged our patio.  Dispite providing photographic evidence as per our contract he has denied this is his fault either saying he had witnesses saying it was not new beforehand or that it was inevitable due to works.  They’d made no attempt to protect the patio whatsoever and when they left it was caked in cement.  We were very clear throughout it was to be retained.

He is demanding we get an independent surveyor report to assess the damage but our contract says ‘photographic evidence’.  We have provided this and are unwilling to pay for a surveyor.  We’ve said we’ll pay for the paving if he lays it as the patio was not new, so we think that’s fair.  We are already out of pocket so we do not want to spend more to prove something that is obvious from a photo.

He is now trying to charge us for ‘variations he was willing to waive’ because we’ve tried to get compensation for this damage.  Some of these were offered for free and others covered by a general item of ‘garden work’ in our quote.  The only ‘waiver’ we are aware of is for slips where he told us he charged us for fewer than used.  

We are also waiting for all certs and warranties from him.

Can a builder charge us for work he previously agreed not to?

Just seeing this from an outsider's perspective (the kind of thing that might happen if you end up in court) - you've had a "huge expensive renovation" carried out which didn't include replacement of the "old" patio.

You've seen them causing damage to the patio - contrary to you being "very clear throughout it was to be retained" - but (apparently) said nothing about it at the time.

"A little later [you] discovered" this damage, and now want the builder to lay a new patio for free.  You don't mind providing the new slabs, even though if the builder has unreasonably caused the damage you could try to make them pay for the slabs too.

As an outsider this looks a little like you always intended to get a new patio to go with your expensively renovated house, but you are hoping to strong-arm the builder into giving you more free labour.

The question is whether you have enough evidence and a sufficiently robust contract to get other outsiders (e.g. a court) to agree with you.

Whether or not the builder can charge for the already carried out work he said he wouldn't charge for is going to depend on whether you can prove he said he wouldn't charge for it.  But it is a classic counter to customers complaining/refusing to pay to put in additional charges to cover the risk of loses elsewhere.

Personally I'd weigh up the financial and emotional cost of spending months arguing with the builder with no guarantee of a good outcome vs the labour cost of getting the slabs laid by a different builder.

GDB2222

 A little later we discovered they had damaged our patio.

That’s the bit I have difficulty with. You settled up on the basis of the work done and any obvious damage. How come you didn’t notice damage to the patio? 

Beedoo

Section62 said:

Beedoo said:

We’ve had builders do a huge expensive renovation.  On completion they issued a final quote including variations.  We agreed to this although there were some extras we didn’t know if he’d also thrown in some things he didn’t have to do for free and overall it seemed fair.  

A little later we discovered they had damaged our patio.  Dispite providing photographic evidence as per our contract he has denied this is his fault either saying he had witnesses saying it was not new beforehand or that it was inevitable due to works.  They’d made no attempt to protect the patio whatsoever and when they left it was caked in cement.  We were very clear throughout it was to be retained.

He is demanding we get an independent surveyor report to assess the damage but our contract says ‘photographic evidence’.  We have provided this and are unwilling to pay for a surveyor.  We’ve said we’ll pay for the paving if he lays it as the patio was not new, so we think that’s fair.  We are already out of pocket so we do not want to spend more to prove something that is obvious from a photo.

He is now trying to charge us for ‘variations he was willing to waive’ because we’ve tried to get compensation for this damage.  Some of these were offered for free and others covered by a general item of ‘garden work’ in our quote.  The only ‘waiver’ we are aware of is for slips where he told us he charged us for fewer than used.  

We are also waiting for all certs and warranties from him.

Can a builder charge us for work he previously agreed not to?

Just seeing this from an outsider's perspective (the kind of thing that might happen if you end up in court) - you've had a "huge expensive renovation" carried out which didn't include replacement of the "old" patio.

You've seen them causing damage to the patio - contrary to you being "very clear throughout it was to be retained" - but (apparently) said nothing about it at the time.

"A little later [you] discovered" this damage, and now want the builder to lay a new patio for free.  You don't mind providing the new slabs, even though if the builder has unreasonably caused the damage you could try to make them pay for the slabs too.

As an outsider this looks a little like you always intended to get a new patio to go with your expensively renovated house, but you are hoping to strong-arm the builder into giving you more free labour.

The question is whether you have enough evidence and a sufficiently robust contract to get other outsiders (e.g. a court) to agree with you.

Whether or not the builder can charge for the already carried out work he said he wouldn't charge for is going to depend on whether you can prove he said he wouldn't charge for it.  But it is a classic counter to customers complaining/refusing to pay to put in additional charges to cover the risk of loses elsewhere.

Personally I'd weigh up the financial and emotional cost of spending months arguing with the builder with no guarantee of a good outcome vs the labour cost of getting the slabs laid by a different builder.

Oh gosh no! We’d always intended to keep it.  If we wanted new we’d have paid for it.  That’s certainly not our game.  We didn’t realise the damage until after they left as to be honest we thought it was just dirty and as we’d discussed multiple times retaining it we assumed they knew what they were doing.  We do feel foolish for not realising earlier they were damaging it, but we trusted them.  When they left it was caked in cement, so we asked them to return and clean it.  It wasn’t until they cleaned it we realised it was permanently damaged. 

We offered to pay for slabs as if it wasn’t going to be relayed we may as well get what we wanted, which were more expensive than existing.  We hoped this would avoid us arguing over the value of the existing patio as it was not new and we thought it would be more favourable to both parties.

Being in London it’s very expensive to get a patio relayed.  We have however now found someone who can tint and reseal it for us.

We can prove he said he wouldn’t Charge us for those items.  He’s said it in emails and we reconciled a final quote and there was no charge for them. 

Beedoo

GDB2222 said:

 A little later we discovered they had damaged our patio.

That’s the bit I have difficulty with. You settled up on the basis of the work done and any obvious damage. How come you didn’t notice damage to the patio? 

We’ll it was very dirty and we assumed it just needed cleaned.  We haven't settled the final payment.  We have now settled all but remaining for snags and the estimated cost to rectify the damage. 

Beedoo

Just to be clear we didn’t immediately ask for a new patio.  We asked him to restore it to which he has continuously refused.  It was when we had others round and asked them to restore it we were told it needed replaced.  We have however found someone who has said they can tint and reseal it which is great news.

We have evidence of all variations being agreed in a final quote and emails/messages from him saying he wasn’t going to charge us for them but wants to now we’ve asked him to rectify damage.    

When I said ‘a little later’ that’s because when they left it was very dirty.  We asked them to clean and it was only on cleaning we found they were damaged.  We actually have reason to suspect that cleaning with acid was the cause of the damage which he told us he did verbally but has since denied.