How to find out out what the charges are on a property ie Mortgages etc

bigb666

Hi I am trying to find out how to find out the cost of a charge on a property i.e. what will what is the outstanding mortgage or charges on a property.

My mother passed away two years ago owning a house with her partner and he passed away six months ago we inherited the house but there is a charge on the house of which we don't know about to my mother's partners father who also passed away a few years ago is there any way of finding out what the charge is on the property and how much its for so that we can resolve any money that's owed to my mums partners dad estate.

Many many thanks for any help

Slithery

Who dealt with your mother's partner's father's estate a few years ago?
This should have been dealt with then as part of probate.

bigb666

Yes it should have been but unfortunately we believe no one knew about this charge on the house when the property got sold to my mum and her partner, but it’s holding up the sale of the house so that’s why I’m asking if anyone would know where I could find this info out. Would it be the land registry? If so what do I ask for not sure really ? 

Slithery

LR only record that there is a charge, not how much it's for (otherwise LR would need updating every month for every property in the country that had a mortgage).

The details will be in your mother's partner's father's paperwork somewhere. Without finding this it will be very difficult to remove the charge as the only people that can do so are the executors of his estate. I'm not sure what happens if probate has been granted without this being included.

canaldumidi

So mother's partner's father owned the house and there was a Charge?

Mother's partner's father sold house to mother and partner and Charge was not removed? Who on earth did the conveyancing for this sale!!!?? Who acted for mother & partner on their purchase?

Mother died. and partner inheritted? Who was mother's Executor or Administrator? Was property transferred into partner's sole name? Who on earth did the transfer?

Then partner died and now you inherit. Who is partner's Executor or Administrator? You?

So on to your question: No, the Land Registry will not know the details of what is owed. Only the Charge owner(bank?) will know if money is still owed and how much.

And only the Charge owner (the bank?) can apply to remove the Charge once they are happy nothing is owed. (well,OK, the property owner can apply together with written authority from the Charge owner but comes to the same thing).

So someone needs to contact the Charge owner (named on the LR Title) and ask. 'Someone'? Who? Who will the bank respond to? Not just any Tom Doris or Harry (confidential financial matter like ain't it? see?).

The 'Someone' will need to be the person the Charge relates to (mother's partner's father? ). Oops! Deceased. So then it must be either his Executor (who was that?), or his Beneficiary (who incidentally would have a claim against the Executor who failed in his duty during Probate to pay off the deceased's debts!).

But Beneficiary (likely mother's partner?)  also deceased, so who is HIS Executor ..... and soon.

Ultimately, you need to convince the Charge owner/bank to accept yourself or 'someone' that you have authority to act, to pay off the debt (if any) and get them to apply to the LR to remove the Charge.

Now the easy bit. The LR forms needed are

Cancel entries relating to a charge: registration (DS2)

You will also need to send in a form DS1 completed by the lender.

Slithery

canaldumidi said:

So mother's partner's father owned the house and there was a Charge?

Mother's partner's father sold house to mother and partner and Charge was not removed? Who on earth did the conveyancing for this sale!!!?? Who acted for mother & partner on their purchase?

I believe that the property only ever belonged to OP's mother and her partner, but with OP's mother's partner's father having a charge on it (probably a private loan/mortgage)?

I thought the same as you to start with but re-reading the post this would make more sense otherwise solicitors would have seriously messed up

@bigb666 - Could you please confirm whose name the property is currently in and who placed the charge on the property. Thanks.

bigb666

canaldumidi said:

So mother's partner's father owned the house and there was a Charge? Yes 

Mother's partner's father sold house to mother and partner and Charge was not removed? Charge we now belive was a loan for the sale from Father to My mum and Partner Who on earth did the conveyancing for this sale!!!?? Who acted for mother & partner on their purchase? Local soliciter 

Mother died. and partner inheritted? Who was mother's Executor or Administrator? Was property transferred into partner's sole name? Who on earth did the transfer? Mother didnt leave a will so we inheritted but house was in both there names so the house transfered to him by default ?  

Then partner died and now you inherit. Yes as we are the sole beneficiaries of his will 
Who is partner's Executor or Administrator? You? No My Brother is the Executor

So Many Thanks for all your help, I didnt know where to start, the solicitor that my brother is using dosent seen to have a clue and he's going a very long way around this, at least I can point my brother in the right direction now and hopfully we can get this removed soon so we can seel the house and move on. 
 

Slithery

You haven't yet answered...

Slithery said:

Who dealt with your mother's partner's father's estate a few years ago?

They are who was responsible for making sure that the charge was dealt with correctly at the time.

bigb666

Slithery said:

You haven't yet answered...

Slithery said:

Who dealt with your mother's partner's father's estate a few years ago?

They are who was responsible for making sure that the charge was dealt with correctly at the time.

I Belive It was His Brother who was the exec of the will 

bigb666

Sithery

I believe that the property only ever belonged to OP's mother and her partner, but with OP's mother's partner's father having a charge on it (probably a private loan/mortgage)?

I thought the same as you to start with but re-reading the post this would make more sense otherwise solicitors would have seriously messed up

@bigb666 - Could you please confirm whose name the property is currently in and who placed the charge on the property. Thanks.I believe that the property only ever belonged to OP's mother and her partner, but with OP's mother's partner's father having a charge on it (probably a private loan/mortgage)? Yes we belive it was a loan when the propery was sold from Mums, Partners father to my Mum and Partner. 

I thought the same as you to start with but re-reading the post this would make more sense otherwise solicitors would have seriously messed up

@bigb666 - Could you please confirm whose name the property is currently in and who placed the charge on the property. Thanks. The Property is in Mums and Partners name, and the charge saysC: Charges Register

This register contains any charges and other matters
that affect the land.

1.  1       A Transfer of the land in this title dated 17 December 1965 made
           between (1) Regent Properties (Finchley) Limited and (2) Ronald Stanley
           Marshant and Joy Doris Marchant contains restrictive covenants.
   

           NOTE: Copy in Certificate.
   

2.  2       (15.05.1997) REGISTERED CHARGE dated 24 March 1997 to secure the moneys
           therein mentioned.
   

3.  3       (15.05.1997) Proprietor: Partners Fathers Name (Removed for privacy reasons)
        

canaldumidi

bigb666 said:

 Mother didnt leave a will so we inheritted but house was in both there names so the house transfered to him by default ?  

Then partner died and now you inherit. Yes as we are the sole beneficiaries of his will 
Who is partner's Executor or Administrator? You? No My Brother is the Executor

 

 

But

The Property is in Mums and Partners name, and the charge says....

So when mum died, the property was NOT 'transferred to partner's name. Basically, the various Executors/Administrators of the Estates of the various owners have taken a very cavalier attitude to managing Probate. Charge not dealt with and Title ownership also seemingly not properly transferred.

You do realise that as Beneficiary, you could make claims against them (the Executors) for any financial costs/losses you incur as a resultof their incompetance........?

From the Charges Register, yes, clearly partners father lent money in 1997 which may or may not have been paid back. His Executor (his brother) should have ensured it WAS paid back and the Charge removed as part of Probate.

I've kind of lost track of who's who, but is the 'brother' who you say was partner's father's Executor, still alive? (and is he brother of partner or brother of partner's father, or.....?)!!!

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