Are PPC's evading paying VAT on collection costs resulting in lost £'000's to HMRC?

ihatetrump

Took a break from the forum for a couple of days and delighted to come back and see so many comments - thanks to all.

The HMRC whistleblowing form claims to be confidential and anonymous - it even allows total anonymity by allowing submissions without your email address. I'm not afraid of the the PPC in question and will be delighted to take them on in court if HMRC needs me as a witness - consequently I entered by email address. I have zero sympathy for these blood sucking leeches of society who having ripped off the motorist then want to rip off the taxpayer also by pocketing the VAT.

@Grumpy_chap:

AIUI, VAT invoices are only required to be provided where both the customer and the supplier are VAT-registered entities.  If the OP was requesting VAT invoices as an individual then there is no obligation to provide and makes you wonder why the PPC went for such a complicated response.

In my particular case, I own my own VAT registered company and as such am entitled to a VAT invoice - borderline yes as to whether I can or would put these charges through as legitimate business expenses, but my ploy with BWL was to flush them out and they took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

I encourage others to use the HMRC whistleblowing form to inform of any suspected tax fraud - I did likewise with the dynamic duo (Batman & Robin) from Macclesfield and Warrington - will wait with baited breath on that one!

Grumpy_chap

Won't the outcome of establishing that these invoices fall within the remit of VAT, simply be that the signs are changed so instead of reading "charge of £70 for overstaying your welcome" the sign reads "charge of £70 + VAT for overstaying your welcome"?

Sometimes, it is a case of being careful what you wish for.

Jenni_D

1) Can't HMRC enforce fines and claw back the VAT that should have been paid?

2) The new parking code of practice puts paid to debt collection charges in their entirety, so them saying £70 + VAT won't happen

ihatetrump

Jenni_D said:

1) Can't HMRC enforce fines and claw back the VAT that should have been paid?

2) The new parking code of practice puts paid to debt collection charges in their entirety, so them saying £70 + VAT won't happen

Yes they absolutely can - and if it's evasion (which is illegal) then the penalties can be very severe.

Additionally, PPC's who derive most of their revenue from PCN's (non VAT generating) vs legitimate parking charges (VAT generating) can find that their ability to reclaim VAT on their purchases & expenses (i.e. on capital equipment such as CCTV  and ANPR equipment etc) can be restricted to the proportion of their income that they collect that is subject to VAT - this is a severe weapon that HMRC have to date only enforced in a few limited cases - they need to get off their backsides and start enforcing this across the entire sector - it will hurt PPCs hard and increase their costs - hopefully driving the more unscrupulous ones out of business.

Snakes_Belly

Looks like Excel had a bad year last year. See page 11 of 2021 accounts.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02878122/filing-history

I wonder what they receive Government grants for? 

There was a programme recently about Barbour and Dame Margaret said that she puts money back into the business rather than buying yachts     

Jenni_D

Snakes_Belly said:

I wonder what they receive Government grants for? 

I imagine they were furlough payments?

Fruitcake

I thought PPCs were one of the businesses that were exempt from receiving furlough payments.

Snakes_Belly

They have certainly taken a big hit to the profit in 2021 against the 2020 figure. Gross profit is down about £5 million. No wonder they are scratching around chasing old PCN's. Directors still took dividends though.

Snakes_Belly

Jenni_D said:

Snakes_Belly said:

I wonder what they receive Government grants for? 

I imagine they were furlough payments?

Could be some Covid related grant. 

patient_dream

Snakes_Belly said:

They have certainly taken a big hit to the profit in 2021 against the 2020 figure. Gross profit is down about £5 million. No wonder they are scratching around chasing old PCN's. Directors still took dividends though.

When the new code kicks in, they will be down 50% selling parking tickets.
*The new appeals service will scupper a huge percenage
*The dodgy debt collectors will have to find a new market place
*The dodgy legals will be scraping around to replace the huge loss
*The courts will be freed of scammers 

The IPC outfit, commonly known as the "Dodgy Dave outfit" or ... "Where did I leave my Robin Reliant ..Rodney" ..... become powerless.

All this happened because the infamous BPA let their members run riot. 
The BPA could have become a leader but they failed, every step along the way.

NOW, the government is the leader and in charge