Dispute with an ex-landlord

AlinaAc

Two months ago we left our rented accommodation and moved our family into a purchased property. We were looking forward to enjoying our new home when our ex-landlord came running after us demanding money for end of tenancy professional cleaning and "broken things", £520 and £70 court fee. During the seven year period we lived there we spent money clearing back garden as it was like a jungle when we first moved in, replacing two broken fence panels, laying lawn turf (which landlord sold us), repairing leaking porch roof, dealing with rodent infestation, etc. Unfortunately we saved no receipts. There is a clause in our tenancy agreement about landlord's obligation to indemnify the tenant against all outgoings in respect of the property. And when we were moving out we thoroughly cleaned room after room, carpets, painted walls where needed because we wanted to maintain the friendly relationship with the landlord we've always had. And now after few emails back and forth between us our ex-landlord put us to County Court saying we "vandalised the property" (quite strong words) and demanding money. We are going to disagree with their claim and counterclaim for all we spent. However all this put a mad stress on us. Do they have a leg to stand on? Do they have grounds to win?
I must add that no inventory was signed at the start of the tenancy even though the house itself was newly decorated.
Before our notice of leave expired (during our last month of tenancy) landlord came to our front garden without prior notice and destroyed rose bushes, rhododendrons and hydrangeas (one of them was ours and we were planning to take it with us) "to make property more presentable for prospective tenants". Isn't it some sort of trespassing?
We paid the rent part by bank transfer and part by cash but no receipts were given to us. We asked for receipts many times but to no avail. We are going to report our ex-landlord to HMRC.
If anyone has any word of advice it would be very appreciated.

Soot2006

Was deposit protected?

If yes, dispute via their procedure.

If not, kaching.

Slithery

Was there a deposit?

Is it in one of the relevant schemes?

Forget about all the money you spent on the property as you won't be able to claim any of it back. You shouldn't really have spent it in the first place but instead got the LL to carry out the repairs.

What does HMRC have to do with any of this?

canaldumidi

Soot2006 said:

Was deposit protected?

If yes, dispute via their procedure.

If not, kaching.

LL has started court proceedings apparently, so OP cannot refer to the deposit scheme arbitration.

However yes, OP needs to confirm a) whether the deposit was protected and b) whether the deposit was returned?

Or perhaps there was no deposit paid which would explain the court action.

As for the LL's claim, you can ignore requirements for 'professional cleaning' in the contract. What matters is whether at the end of the tenancy the property was in a worse condition than at the start (less fair wear and tear). The LL will have to convince the court that this is so, usually (but not exclusively) by comparing a check-in inventory with a check-out inspection. But if the property was newly decorated and the LL has receipts to prove this, that is good evidence of the condition at the start. Do you have photos/evidence of the condition when you left to counter any claim for a need for professional cleaning?

You say he is claiming for 'broken things' and vandalism. Is that what the claim says? Or does it list the items broken and the costs to repair/replace each? Do you accept/deny each item?

Improvements you made to the property ("clearing back garden as it was like a jungle when we first moved in, replacing two broken fence panels, laying lawn turf"etc) are irrelevant to his claim. You chose to do that and it does not affect any damage/dirt you may have been responsible for elsewhere.

You can try to counter claim, but nless the LL agreed to you making improvements, at his cost, your claim will likely fail.

Paying rent by bank transfer does not require receipts- your bank transactions willprove the payment - but this also sems irrelevant unless the LL is also claiming rent arrears?

Not sure why you are reporting LL to HMRC. a) how will that help you and b) what makes you think he is not paying tax? The lack of receipts certainly does not lead to that conclusion.

If you want further advice you will need to provide fuller details of the LL's actual claims.

AlinaAc

canaldumidi said:

Soot2006 said:

Was deposit protected?

If yes, dispute via their procedure.

If not, kaching.

LL has started court proceedings apparently, so OP cannot refer to the deposit scheme arbitration.

However yes, OP needs to confirm a) whether the deposit was protected and b) whether the deposit was returned?

Or perhaps there was no deposit paid which would explain the court action.

As for the LL's claim, you can ignore requirements for 'professional cleaning' in the contract. What matters is whether at the end of the tenancy the property was in a worse condition than at the start (less fair wear and tear). The LL will have to convince the court that this is so, usually (but not exclusively) by comparing a check-in inventory with a check-out inspection. But if the property was newly decorated and the LL has receipts to prove this, that is good evidence of the condition at the start. Do you have photos/evidence of the condition when you left to counter any claim for a need for professional cleaning?

You say he is claiming for 'broken things' and vandalism. Is that what the claim says? Or does it list the items broken and the costs to repair/replace each? Do you accept/deny each item?

Improvements you made to the property ("clearing back garden as it was like a jungle when we first moved in, replacing two broken fence panels, laying lawn turf"etc) are irrelevant to his claim. You chose to do that and it does not affect any damage/dirt you may have been responsible for elsewhere.

You can try to counter claim, but nless the LL agreed to you making improvements, at his cost, your claim will likely fail.

Paying rent by bank transfer does not require receipts- your bank transactions willprove the payment - but this also sems irrelevant unless the LL is also claiming rent arrears?

Not sure why you are reporting LL to HMRC. a) how will that help you and b) what makes you think he is not paying tax? The lack of receipts certainly does not lead to that conclusion.

If you want further advice you will need to provide fuller details of the LL's actual claims.

Thank you for you reply.
There wasn't a deposit in the first place.
Referring to vandalism, as I mentioned there were emails between us and the landlord where they claimed things were damaged by us but we didn't accept their claim. Like, small holes were punched in the window sill, for which they charged us £20. Or outside electric socket cover came off, £30. The professional cleaning side of claim makes up £375.
When we were leaving we took a video footage of the property inside to show the house was clean.
Why did we make improvements? Because when we pointed things out to the landlord, no action was taken from their side. Sometimes you just get fed up and fix things yourself.
We are reporting LL to the HMRC because they failed to give us the receipts for part of rent paid by cash. How will it help us? I don't know, but I can't just sit and let myself be eaten by a greedy person (and they are greedy).

So from what I can see, they do have a leg to stand on and we will just have to pay whatever they ask just because they feel like "we have to as we just bought a  beautiful house"? 

Wanderingpomm

What evidence does he have? That’s all that will matter in court. Dates photos, signed inventory etc. bare in mind that he cannot claim betterment. The property has to be returned in a state that is the same minus wear and tear. Everything also has a life carpets for instance are approx 5 years depending on quality so the LL wouldn’t have much of a claim for these because even if they were brand new the they have pretty much served their life. Just defend the claim and counterclaim for your costs if you can prove you are in the right 

Slithery

AlinaAc said:

We are reporting LL to the HMRC because they failed to give us the receipts for part of rent paid by cash.

Nothing to do with HMRC. There's no legal requirement to give a receipt.

AlinaAc said:

So from what I can see, they do have a leg to stand on and we will just have to pay whatever they ask just because they feel like "we have to as we just bought a  beautiful house"? 

No-one has said that. If you don't bother turning up to court then yes, the judge will probably rule against you. But if you show up then the LL will have to prove that any claims are valid.

elsien

Did you take any photos or videos when you moved in? 

canaldumidi

AlinaAc said:

canaldumidi said:

Soot2006 said:

Was deposit protected?

If yes, dispute via their procedure.

If not, kaching.

LL has started court proceedings apparently, so OP cannot refer to the deposit scheme arbitration.

However yes, OP needs to confirm a) whether the deposit was protected and b) whether the deposit was returned?

Or perhaps there was no deposit paid which would explain the court action.

As for the LL's claim, you can ignore requirements for 'professional cleaning' in the contract. What matters is whether at the end of the tenancy the property was in a worse condition than at the start (less fair wear and tear). The LL will have to convince the court that this is so, usually (but not exclusively) by comparing a check-in inventory with a check-out inspection. But if the property was newly decorated and the LL has receipts to prove this, that is good evidence of the condition at the start. Do you have photos/evidence of the condition when you left to counter any claim for a need for professional cleaning?

You say he is claiming for 'broken things' and vandalism. Is that what the claim says? Or does it list the items broken and the costs to repair/replace each? Do you accept/deny each item?

Improvements you made to the property ("clearing back garden as it was like a jungle when we first moved in, replacing two broken fence panels, laying lawn turf"etc) are irrelevant to his claim. You chose to do that and it does not affect any damage/dirt you may have been responsible for elsewhere.

You can try to counter claim, but nless the LL agreed to you making improvements, at his cost, your claim will likely fail.

Paying rent by bank transfer does not require receipts- your bank transactions willprove the payment - but this also sems irrelevant unless the LL is also claiming rent arrears?

Not sure why you are reporting LL to HMRC. a) how will that help you and b) what makes you think he is not paying tax? The lack of receipts certainly does not lead to that conclusion.

If you want further advice you will need to provide fuller details of the LL's actual claims.

Thank you for you reply.
There wasn't a deposit in the first place. OK - so you can't claim for non-protection, and that explains why the court action
Referring to vandalism, as I mentioned there were emails between us and the landlord where they claimed things were damaged by us but we didn't accept their claim. Like, small holes were punched in the window sill, for which they charged us £20. Or outside electric socket cover came off, £30. The professional cleaning side of claim makes up £375.

The emails are now irrelevant. As I understand it, the LL has now commenced court action, yes? If that is the case, what exactly do the court Particulars of Claim say (not any earlier emails/communications)?

When we were leaving we took a video footage of the property inside to show the house was clean. Good. That willgive you evidence for your defence in court
Why did we make improvements? Because when we pointed things out to the landlord, no action was taken from their side. Sometimes you just get fed up and fix things yourself. Fine.But you cannot then counter-claim for those costs which you chose to make. However frustrated by the LL's failure to make improvements, unless he agreed toyou doing this, he is not liable for your costs.
We are reporting LL to the HMRC because they failed to give us the receipts for part of rent paid by cash. There is no legal  requirement for a receipt, though it is always sensible to get one so as to prove you have paid. But it's nothing to do with HMRC. Do you have any real evidence of tax fraud?

How will it help us? I don't know,  it won't.

but I can't just sit and let myself be eaten by a greedy person (and they are greedy).

So from what I can see, they do have a leg to stand on and we will just have to pay whatever they ask just because they feel like "we have to as we just bought a  beautiful house"? 

Whether they 'have a leg to stand on' is still very unclear as you have not given details of what the LL has specified on his Particulars of Claim.. Now, maybe that's because the LL's claim is vague, in which case it will probably fail, or maybe it's because you have not quoted it here so we cannot comment.

But some of the things you've written sugest he may have a valid claim eg the property was newly decorated, damage to window sill and electric cover etc, but it's allfar too vague to be sure.

saajan_12

AlinaAc said:

Two months ago we left our rented accommodation and moved our family into a purchased property. We were looking forward to enjoying our new home when our ex-landlord came running after us demanding money for end of tenancy professional cleaning and "broken things", £520 and £70 court fee. - however you phrase it, those are normal things to be discussed after the end of a tenancy and if you disagree then court is the natural next step, incurring a court fee if the LL is judged to be right. 
During the seven year period we lived there we spent money clearing back garden as it was like a jungle when we first moved in, replacing two broken fence panels, laying lawn turf (which landlord sold us), repairing leaking porch roof, dealing with rodent infestation, etc. Unfortunately we saved no receipts. - doesn't matter, if you chose to improve the place you lived, thats up to you. If you wanted the LL to reimburse that should have been agreed before incurring the costs. Some eg turf aren't necessarily required, that's the place you chose to move into. Some eg leaking roof could be the LL's responsibility but its also their right to choose the tradesperson etc. You'd have to report in writing, follow the process, with fixing yourself + deducting from rent as a last resort. If you skipped than, then can't claim anything now. 
There is a clause in our tenancy agreement about landlord's obligation to indemnify the tenant against all outgoings in respect of the property. - please quote verbatim, not sure what you mean. 
And when we were moving out we thoroughly cleaned room after room, carpets, painted walls where needed because we wanted to maintain the friendly relationship with the landlord we've always had. - well also to fulfil your obligations under the tenancy (at least for the cleaning.. not clear whether the painting was due to damages or just fair wear & tear, in which case its your choice)
And now after few emails back and forth between us our ex-landlord put us to County Court saying we "vandalised the property" (quite strong words) and demanding money. - well if you can't agree, then yes court is the natural next step. 
We are going to disagree with their claim and counterclaim for all we spent. However all this put a mad stress on us. Do they have a leg to stand on? Do they have grounds to win? - their claim: potentially, depends on what the actual provable damages are and the costs to remediate them. your counterclaim: no chance. 
I must add that no inventory was signed at the start of the tenancy even though the house itself was newly decorated. - a signed inventory is good proof, but not essential. Dated photos, statement from whoever did the work, receipt from new items purchased, etc could all prove the condition at the start. 
Before our notice of leave expired (during our last month of tenancy) landlord came to our front garden without prior notice and destroyed rose bushes, rhododendrons and hydrangeas (one of them was ours and we were planning to take it with us) "to make property more presentable for prospective tenants". Isn't it some sort of trespassing? - the remedy for tresspass is to demand and then get police to escort them off the premises at the time. At this stage its irrelevant. 
We paid the rent part by bank transfer and part by cash but no receipts were given to us. We asked for receipts many times but to no avail. We are going to report our ex-landlord to HMRC. - why would you pay like that, unless you were also hiding something..? If not, what was stopping you from bank transferring the full rent if you were so concerned? At this stage irrelevant unless there's a claim for rent arrears / overpaid rent?
If anyone has any word of advice it would be very appreciated.

Lots of the bits about what happened during the tenancy and the language between you is irrelevant to the matter at hand: damages. Sounds like you're perhaps taking it more personally, but I'd suggest focussing on the actual line items, whether they were there when you left, not there when you started, beyond fair wear & tear, and if the amounts to remediate are reasonable. Gather your proof eg pictures if you're arguing no damage during your tenancy, or your justification on a more reasonable charge if you think those are high. 

Happy to take a look at the list of the damages and amounts they're claiming to advise further. 

AlinaAc said:

Referring to vandalism, as I mentioned there were emails between us and the landlord where they claimed things were damaged by us but we didn't accept their claim. Like, small holes were punched in the window sill, for which they charged us £20. - so were there holes created during your tenancy? If yes, £20 sounds reasonable for some materials and labour to fill and make good. 

Or outside electric socket cover came off, £30. - did it? Do you have a link to where one can be purchased for cheaper? Is there any labour to install it? 

The professional cleaning side of claim makes up £375. 
When we were leaving we took a video footage of the property inside to show the house was clean. - so this is the main item.. does the LL list what areas were dirty and provide pictures? Do you have slow enough / close up enough video of those areas showing they were clean? Also is there a justification of the time / cost to clean those areas?

That totals 20+30+375 = £425, so there's still £95 missing to reach the £520 claim. 

Norman_Castle

AlinaAc said:

Before our notice of leave expired (during our last month of tenancy) landlord came to our front garden without prior notice and destroyed rose bushes, rhododendrons and hydrangeas (one of them was ours and we were planning to take it with us) "to make property more presentable for prospective tenants". Isn't it some sort of trespassing?

Its harassment and criminal damage.