Underfloor heating

outlaw777

Would be electric dry....

fenwick458

outlaw777 said:

I dont know what you mean by dry or wet? I have wooden floors and its a flat.....

https://underfloorheatingexpert.com/whats-best-underfloor-heating-wet-dry/

the fact that it's a flat poses a problem, do you know where your services (water, electric etc) are currently ran? if it's underneath the wooden floor then you can't really just cover it with a UFH system

FreeBear

outlaw777 said: Would be electric dry....

Cautionary tale - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6336136/huge-bill-on-electricity-of-vulnerable-severely-disabled-man-carers-left-heating-on-constantly/p1 - Poor guy has electric UFH, and now a ~£500 per month bill which will be even higher come the April price rise.

BikingBud

@Rosa_Damascena

Are you able to answer my previous questions? 

Your negative experiences, well argued and supported, may enable other subscribers to make better informed decisions and avoid costly mistakes that are difficult to rectify.

Thanks 

Rosa_Damascena

BikingBud said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

I had WUFH installed last summer and never switch it on, as its become far too expensive to use! So in all a big waste of money.

Are you able to elaborate please?

In theory the property should only consume the same amount of energy but obviously depends upon changes to fabric, layout and house usage. Do you think the extra expense is due to energy price increases or the amount of energy it uses?

If the latter have you checked the set up to see if it was commissioned correctly, to operate at best efficiency? 

What do you intend to do now?

Are you able to elaborate please?
I ran the GCH (a little too) freely in the mornings and evenings in December, esp the zoned area which was turned to tropical - whopping bill arrived. So I used it to a minimum (I thought, by setting the thermostat in the main house to just 12degC) in January, and suffered the cold. The gas bill came down by all of £30. From that point forward I switched of the GCH altogether and only use the gas for heating water through the combi boiler. From the start of the month, the two south facing orangeries have started to feel pleasant when the sun shines so that was a bonus. I will see whether my suffering has been in vain from next Monday.

In theory the property should only consume the same amount of energy 
It doesn't because the footprint has increased significantly. I can only ever be in one room at a time and its makes more sense for me to spend the evenings in my cosy snug with the assistance of my sleeping bag, HWB, multiple throws, lights and TV running. No gas required.

If the latter have you checked the set up to see if it was commissioned correctly, to operate at best efficiency? 
No, its easier to switch it off entirely. But since the main house was set to 12degC, I have to assume its the UFH and multiple radiator combo in the new section of the house that is guzzling the gas.

What do you intend to do now?
Limit running it to test / should I have guests / family move in with me permanently (the reason for upsizing the accommodation).

Its not a question of not having money, I just don't have money to burn - literally! Although I now have to travel to work 2-3 times a week which is an even bigger waste of fuel.

BikingBud

Thanks @Rosa_Damascena

Some of that makes absolute sense.

You have modified the building to increase the floor area significantly, so you would expect the heat consumption to also increase significantly. Unfortunately, if the floor space and thermal efficiency are not optimised then there will be an associated significant jump in energy costs.

Did you get heat loss calculations completed for the revised structure? Also what focus was placed on energy efficiency in the changes to the building? These 2 factors should have minimised your scope for heat loss and should have enabled selection of the correct emitters or UFH design but the heat required would be dependent upon fabric (thermal efficiency) not the selected heating method. What flooring do you have and is it covered by rug, large furniture etc that block heat transfer? 

Zones should enable effective set up of the system to suit your building use and if you lower the temp in some occasionally used zones, (closing down the west wing for instance) you should get some benefits, gains over the nominal heat required as determined in the calculations mentioned above. If you spend most of your time in the snug I would expect that this is on a zone that can be easily controlled to ensure your lifestyle is matched by the heating system performance.

I have normal radiators with TRVs and adjust manually during the day as I use different rooms, a modern UFH system should allow this to work automatically but remember with a high thermal mass, the floor, the response may take a few hours to reach desired temp but will then emit for a few hours after heating has stopped.

Managing UFH is a different mindset, therefore I would be seeking the support of the installers to revisit and ensure it is working correctly and then discuss optimising your system set up for your needs. If you are staying there long term you need it to work effectively and if you are selling you want to convince potential purchasers that the house is energy efficient and UFH is the best thing you have ever had in a house.

Rosa_Damascena

The whole house is now extremely well insulated and heat calculations had to be submitted as part of the plan.

I take your point about a different mindset, but in reality the crunch won't come for me until October when I need to think about using it regularly again.

BikingBud

Would it be reasonable to say therefore that the increase in size of the building has been the key factor in increasing your heat consumption? The change to UFH is not the root cause.

And that this increased heat consumption has been aggravated by the increase in the cost of gas and electric?

Rosa_Damascena said:

Its not a question of not having money, I just don't have money to burn - literally! 

But heating is burning money! Being able to control it effectively (getting the required level of comfort for the price you can pay) is key, @HertsLad seems absolutely content wearing clothing to keep warm, you do not.

I would be looking to fully understand and learn how to exploit the system now, especially validating that it has been correctly installed and set up, if you leave it until October then you may be faced with further cold and misery next winter.  

Rosa_Damascena

BikingBud said:

Would it be reasonable to say therefore that the increase in size of the building has been the key factor in increasing your heat consumption? The change to UFH is not the root cause.

And that this increased heat consumption has been aggravated by the increase in the cost of gas and electric?

Rosa_Damascena said:

Its not a question of not having money, I just don't have money to burn - literally! 

But heating is burning money! Being able to control it effectively (getting the required level of comfort for the price you can pay) is key, @HertsLad seems absolutely content wearing clothing to keep warm, you do not.

I would be looking to fully understand and learn how to exploit the system now, especially validating that it has been correctly installed and set up, if you leave it until October then you may be faced with further cold and misery next winter.  

I gave this a bit more thought earlier. The price per unit hasn't gone up that much because I switched onto a year's fixed tariff just before Avro went under. The footprint of the house is large but the real issue is a) accessing the manifold (awkward doesn't come close) and b) knowing how to fine tune it. The gas fitter couldn't get away fast enough, it was clear he didn't really understand the operation of the system either!

coffeehound

@Rosa_Damascena what is the C/H flow temperature set to on your combi boiler?  Try turning this down to 50º (if it is currently higher) and it should run the system more efficiently