Border Retail Park, Wrexham

Pharlapdog

Received an unfair Parking Charge Notice from UKPC? You don't have to pay it.
Border Retail Park, Wrexham is an ANPR controlled car park with several retail outlets operating throughout the day and a drive-through Burger King restaurant which operates until 10:30pm. The car park is managed by UKPC and their sign at the entrance states: "90 minutes maximum stay between 7am and 8pm, 30 minutes between 8pm and 7am". Then underneath in very small writing: "See notices in the car park for terms and conditions and data use".

It is my earnest hope that victims of this particular scam will find their way to this thread and the fightback can begin. If you have been sent a Notice to Keeper (NtK), you may not have to pay UKPC's invoice, you have a choice. Please note - the NtK is an invoice - a begging letter if you like, not a fine, or a penalty. If standing up to these bullies is too stressful for you then by all means pay their outrageous demand. If on the other hand, you want to help see the back of bad parking companies, then it behoves you to resist their demands and hasten their demise. You will get all the help you need here and on other websites. 99% of PCNs fail if the procedures here are followed:

1 Receive NtK.
2 Ask landowner to cancel NtK.
3 Appeal to UKPC as keeper if not cancelled.
4 Ignore any letter from UKPC inviting you to name the driver.
5 If UKPC don't cancel use code to appeal to POPLA.
6 If POPLA appeal fails wait for begging letter chain from debt collection agents.
7 Ignore all letters from debt collection agents.
8 Ignore initial letters from solicitors threatening court action.
9 DO NOT IGNORE ANY LETTERS FROM THE COURT if UKPC are foolish enough to commence legal action.
10 If legal action is commenced come back here to defend the claim.
11 If you lose in court the most you will have to pay is £170 but most claims fail if properly defended.
12 If you lose, pay up and you won't receive a CCJ
Getting to all the way to stage 12 is extremely unlikely. Most PPCs give up way before the court stage.

Umkomaas

If on the other hand, you want to help see the back of bad parking companies, then it behoves you to resist their demands and hasten their demise.

The Government is well on the road to doing this. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice

The imposition of just 30 minutes maximum parking time might well be in breach of the planning permission granted by the local council, especially for a retail park also sporting an eatery. Check out any permissions via the council's online portal (or call them up).  It's impossible to plan a kitchen at Wickes in less than 30 minutes!

From looking at GSV, I see that Jones Lang LaSalle are the managing agent. They are usually very helpful to those genuine customers snagged by the scam, it is not in their interest (on behalf of the retailers) to see customers potentially never return to the site for fear of receiving another £100 penalty.  Anyone so snagged should immediately complain to JLL.

Pharlapdog

Many genuine Burger King customers have been caught in this particular honey trap. 30 minutes is not long even if using the drive-through. If you sit down in their restaurant there is little chance of; parking up, choosing, ordering, waiting, consuming your food, going to the toilet, returning to your car and leaving the car park.

As the registered keeper of a vehicle in which the occupant did exactly this I have received a NTK. I will not be naming the driver nor will I be accepting liability under the protection of freedoms act. The only way UKPC will get any money out of me is if ordered to by a judge.

I have tried the first stage of appeal, asking the retailer (Burger King) to cancel the ticket. They have not even bothered to reply to my letter. I have heard others have tried this and received similar responses.

On to the next stage then. Appeal to UKPC. I'll keep this thread updated with my progress.

Umkomaas

Try JLL - a landowner/MA cancellation is the most satisfying and final. 

nor will I be accepting liability under the protection of freedoms act. 

If UKPC have issued a PoFA compliant NtK (most PPCs manage to do this), I'm afraid you don't get a choice.  

Pharlapdog

The sign at the entrance to the car park is interesting. Suppose you arrive at 7:30pm how long are you allowed to 'stay' to avoid being sent a NTK?
1) Till 8pm? The allowed 90 minute stay expires at 8pm. You were not able to use it all, tough.
2) Till 8:30pm? The 90 minute stay expires at 8pm and the clock is reset to 30 minutes.
3) Till 8:40pm? Same as 2) above but with an added grace period to allow you to return to your car and leave?
4) Till 9pm? The 90 minute clock does not get reset at 8pm.
5) Till 9:10pm? Same as 4) above but with an added grace period to allow you to return to your car and leave?
6) Something else?

I don't see how it is possible to know from the signage. 

Umkomaas

I don't see how it is possible to know from the signage

So that becomes a super point to raise with JLL, in any POPLA appeal you make and to a judge should it get to court. 

We have found in court, judges have been extremely fastidious in closely analysing the signs and what they say, and in a large number of cases they have found them to be (variously) badly placed, hidden by weeds, branches, bushes, too high, too low, unintelligible, too wordy ...... with the Defendant duly exonerated.  

Le_Kirk

Pharlapdog said:

"30 minutes maximum stay between 7am and 8pm, 30 minutes between 8pm and 7am". 

Isn't that the same restriction?  Wonder why they chose to show as that instead of just a blanket 30 minute maximum stay.  Perhaps they hate all their customers and are trying to drive them away!

Pharlapdog

Le_Kirk said:

Pharlapdog said:

"30 minutes maximum stay between 7am and 8pm, 30 minutes between 8pm and 7am". 

Isn't that the same restriction?  Wonder why they chose to show as that instead of just a blanket 30 minute maximum stay.  Perhaps they hate all their customers and are trying to drive them away!

Oops. My Bad. I meant to write "90 minutes maximum stay between 7am and 8pm, 30 minutes between 8pm and 7am. OP corrected"

unforeseen

Simplest answer is to park in Tesco's car park

Pharlapdog

Umkomaas said:
The imposition of just 30 minutes maximum parking time might well be in breach of the planning permission granted by the local council, especially for a retail park also sporting an eatery. Check out any permissions via the council's online portal (or call them up).  It's impossible to plan a kitchen at Wickes in less than 30 minutes!

Planning was granted in 2001 so not available online. I have obtained a pdf from WDBC though. It is silent on parking conditions for the site save for parking being "adequate" and the provision of bicycle facilities. This looks like a dead end.

Pharlapdog

Umkomaas said:

From looking at GSV, I see that Jones Lang LaSalle are the managing agent. They are usually very helpful to those genuine customers snagged by the scam, it is not in their interest (on behalf of the retailers) to see customers potentially never return to the site for fear of receiving another £100 penalty.  Anyone so snagged should immediately complain to JLL.

I have been in contact with JLL and they have confirmed that they are the managing agent. I have the email address of the person(s) responsible for the site and who any victims should contact to get a NTK cancelled. Unfortunately I can't post it here according to the moderators. Hopefully MSE has a private messaging facility that I can use to help other people out?