Electricity and gas standing charges - petition

Merlin139

While you are at it can you add the removal of standing charges on water bills and get rid of VED and add that to the cost of fuel for vehicles.

Both of those benefit the low user.

PennineAcute

Merlin139 said:

While you are at it can you add the removal of standing charges on water bills and get rid of VED and add that to the cost of fuel for vehicles.

Both of those benefit the low user.

Then electric car owners (who pay zero VED) then suffer. 

You can please some of the people all of the time,

You can please all of the people some of the time,

But you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

wrf12345

Ofgem are useless as far as consumers go, the only way to get rid of s/c's is to convince politicians that it would be a vote winner and post April s/c's make up nearly £300 of the bill in some regions - an absolute disgrace! That would be a nice chunk out of the bill even for high users if the green taxes were used to fund it rather than upping the unit rate.

wild666

I am all for putting the SC onto the average usage for gas and electric as my usage of both is relatively low for electric and extremely low in the case of gas. High users would subsidise the costs more and low users less, but would the high users sufficiently use so much that they offset the low users usage. If so then this could be the way forward, if not then charging more for the first two or more kWh might be an option. 

rogerc446

wild666 said:

I am all for putting the SC onto the average usage for gas and electric as my usage of both is relatively low for electric and extremely low in the case of gas. High users would subsidise the costs more and low users less, but would the high users sufficiently use so much that they offset the low users usage. If so then this could be the way forward, if not then charging more for the first two or more kWh might be an option. 

From what I recall, when there wasn't a standing charge, there was an initial rate up to a certain usage, and then a standard rate, which effectively capped the fixed element of the unit rate.  A high user is likely to go for one of these tariffs if the SC was scrapped so the subsidising wouldn't happen.

MattMattMattUK

wrf12345 said:

Ofgem are useless as far as consumers go, the only way to get rid of s/c's is to convince politicians that it would be a vote winner and post April s/c's make up nearly £300 of the bill in some regions - an absolute disgrace!

The standing charges represent the cost of the network that all users, whether low, average or high, are connected to, therefore it makes sense that all users pay the standing charges. I would guess from your vitriolic hatred of standing charges that you are either a low user, or an owner of a second home, and would rather "someone else" paid for the cost of the network.

wrf12345 said:

That would be a nice chunk out of the bill even for high users if the green taxes were used to fund it rather than upping the unit rate.

The thing is it would not be "a nice chunk out of the bill", it would mean that the unit rate would need to rise proportionally and that high users would be penalised, whilst low users would be subsidised. The "green taxes" are so low that they would make little difference, they make up around 3% of the cost of energy supply, with VAT making up 5% and social provisions costing 6%. 

MattMattMattUK

wild666 said:

I am all for putting the SC onto the average usage for gas and electric as my usage of both is relatively low for electric and extremely low in the case of gas. High users would subsidise the costs more and low users less, but would the high users sufficiently use so much that they offset the low users usage. If so then this could be the way forward, if not then charging more for the first two or more kWh might be an option. 

Why should one group of users subsidise another group at all? Surely it makes sense that people are charged their share of network costs and then charged for their usage, rather than trying to get one group to cross subsidise another in the hope that it all balances out. 

EssexHebridean

This is the thing - my ludicrously low use of gas still costs precisely the same to get to the point of use, surely? Why would I expect our next door neighbours, who have central heating running a LOT of the time to essentially pay the cost (or at least a proportion of) of getting MY gas to my cooker? This is akin to someone ordering a really small grocery delivery from Tesco, and expecting it to be delivered for nothing because the house across the road also gets their groceries delivered by the same store... 

matelodave

 Perhaps the OP would prefer to pay his standing charge by the mile or would he whinge because he lives further down the road and pays more per kwh than the bloke at number 19 or in the next twon or village because they are closer to the power station.

We are all subsidising each other through the use of standing charges, otherwise those who live next door to a power station or a gas depot would pay a lot less than those who live halfway up a mountain, in the middle of the country or even those who live in a built up area where its a lot more costly to provide and maintain the infrastructure. 

I suppose another alternative is a big up front cost to have it laid on or when you move into a new house and then have to pay again every time  whenever there's a power outage or maintenance requirement before the supply gets restored. Perhaps he'd be happy with a two or three week delay whilst the money is gathered in before they sorted it out, or even worse doesn't get reconnected because he couldn't pay.

Water has a standing charge, as does sewerage unless you have it delivered and taken away and  where you have a charge for the privilege of a tanker coming to your door and if you don't pay then they don't come.

We live in an area, like many others where gas isn't available because it's too costly to install, so we have to either use leccy or pay to provide our own infrastructure by way of a big oil or gas tank. On top of that then having to pay to have it delivered by road, where distance and quantity is a factor in the cost . Not many people subsidising the oil or LPG industry and again if you dont pay they dont come. Likewise, LPG and oil aren't subject to any price control caps like mains gas and leccy and so the suppliers can charge what they like.

savers_united

Each region will have an annual network upgrade / maintenace bill that we all have to pay regardless of usage, it's the only fair way to do it. Whilst I get that lower users may feel they are not impacting the environment as much its still the higher users who pay more anyhow, by them paying a higher unit rate its just shifting all the network, and operator costs as well Ofgem SoLR costs on to them as well, and low users then contribute very little to these costs and take it from me these costs are not cheap.

We had some sewage pipes that collapsed under our driveway repaired about 10 years ago. Some 6 years later we lost all power to the house, called the emergency helpline and we got a response within 3 hours, drive was dug up and main incomer was found to be damaged. It seemed like when the sewage pipes had been repaired some one had just nicked the electrical feed and over the next few years it degraded until it went pop.

A generator was set up overnight so we had power whilst the cable was repaired and set in resin. Over the next 2 days the drive was repaired and new tarmac laid. We were not charged anything, but the guy who was running the show said a job like this would have been in excess of £1500 had we been paying. At the time it was around 10 years of SC on one job. Anyone who thinks a PAYG scheme for network costs is better then get ready for some large one off payments if your premises or neighbourhood lose power.