Living with little or without household energy??

pelirocco

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

I mean if people want to go the whole hog here they may as well suggest the OP sells up, uses the computers in the local library to work every day, and then heads down to the subway to sleep every night under some cardboard boxes.

Do you have any useful suggestions or help for the OP to save the 90% on their energy bills that they intend to save?

Pointing out the difficulties of doing so by using a ridiculous example of how to do it will hopefully make it clear to the OP  that it's a fools errand. For the sake of clarity, I was not, in fact, seriously suggesting that the OP use rainwater to save money on their energy bills. Does that set your mind at rest?

No, because I think cutting usage by 90% is inpossible unless you want to smell revolting, live like a hermit, not get enough light and generally have a throughly miserable existence. Nobody should be suggesting ways to achieve this as imo its irresponsible.

So, the huge amounts of people who do this because they have to "smell revolting, live like hermits, get insufficient light and have thoroughly miserable existences". That's a very privileged statement to make. Throughout human history, the vast majority of people have had to live without electricity or gas. Significant parts of the human population of this planet still do. Your characterisation of people who have no choice is bigoted and obnoxious. I am glad I am not the OP being faced with such rudeness. Not only are you not attempting to help, you are actively attacking them.

Your narrow mindedness saddens me.

It isnt an attack at all. My point was that nobody should be actively encouraging people to cut 90% of the energy and end up having to live this way 

There is another thread where someone had described how they live this way and they have been piled on for even starting the thread.

Don't be disingenuous. It was an attack. It was an outright insult.

Furthermore, nobody in this thread has encouraged the OP to cut 90% of their electricity. The OP elected to do it themselves and asked for help in doing it. Several people have suggested ways for them to do so while also pointing out the difficulties in doing so. You have attacked them and insulted them. The OP apparently has to make this saving, whether or not you like it or agree with it or find it acceptable. Sometimes, people have no choice but to make these kinds of savings. Magical thinking doesn't change the reality of that individual's situation. Having to choose between heating and eating is a daily reality for some people. Leaving someone to struggle in such a situation and not attempting to help them is, imo irresponsible. People need help, not your bigotry.

I fail to see how fact that there is another thread where someone got piled on is relevant. The information the OP of that thread contributed might be of great help to someone.

Perhaps you could explain to me exactly how it is irresponsible to suggest alternative ways of coping to people who don't have access to traditional methods of heating?

The first start is to look at where your money is going to see if cuts can be made there
Yes there are many People  who cannot cut their costs or increase their income and any cost of living increase will affect them greatly 
The OP however ,appears to have a career that gives them a good income .They have admitted that they overstretched them selves in buying the house they live in .
It's perfectly reasonable to ask them to have a look at where else they can cut back on
They state they think their energy costs will increase by 150%
It's far more helpful  to know what their bills are now and how much extra they they think they will  need to find 
Is fuel increasing by 150% ?
It's much easier to deal with figures that show real costs and not random %figures
If it costs too much to run the house you live in you always have the option to sell
Having a house you can't afford to run  and you need to renovate is not a good idea

Guineapigsqueaks

I worry that high energy prices will further increase the trend towards open fires and wood burners.  I would never choose these options (I realise some have no choice). It's not just the effect on neighbourhood air quality (we have forgotten the pea soupers of the past), but they release harmful PM2.5 into your home, the stuff they worry about from busy roads.
Guineapigsqueaks x

pelirocco

EmrysWyllt said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

I mean if people want to go the whole hog here they may as well suggest the OP sells up, uses the computers in the local library to work every day, and then heads down to the subway to sleep every night under some cardboard boxes.

Do you have any useful suggestions or help for the OP to save the 90% on their energy bills that they intend to save?

Pointing out the difficulties of doing so by using a ridiculous example of how to do it will hopefully make it clear to the OP  that it's a fools errand. For the sake of clarity, I was not, in fact, seriously suggesting that the OP use rainwater to save money on their energy bills. Does that set your mind at rest?

No, because I think cutting usage by 90% is inpossible unless you want to smell revolting, live like a hermit, not get enough light and generally have a throughly miserable existence. Nobody should be suggesting ways to achieve this as imo its irresponsible.

So, the huge amounts of people who do this because they have to "smell revolting, live like hermits, get insufficient light and have thoroughly miserable existences". That's a very privileged statement to make. Throughout human history, the vast majority of people have had to live without electricity or gas. Significant parts of the human population of this planet still do. Your characterisation of people who have no choice is bigoted and obnoxious. I am glad I am not the OP being faced with such rudeness. Not only are you not attempting to help, you are actively attacking them.

Your narrow mindedness saddens me.

It isnt an attack at all. My point was that nobody should be actively encouraging people to cut 90% of the energy and end up having to live this way 

There is another thread where someone had described how they live this way and they have been piled on for even starting the thread.

I have helped the OP by suggesting their issues are bigger than just their energy bill and to look at their entire financial situation. I certainly wont be encouraging them to cut their energy usage by 90% and live a throughly miserable existence as a result.

Nor have I been abusive, unlike yourself.

Oh please.. Firstly the OP has chosen to live beyond their means. What about downsizing? Lad on the Hill was obviously not suggesting they did what he posted. Many people have to just exist, many live on handouts. Some people, me included, have had to live rough in the past and just survive day by day. 

He speaks truth in that many millions still live without the benefit of electric or gas supply. 

As a nation we have become to reliant on having it all. If you can’t afford your lifestyle then change it. 

This is exactly  what emmajones was saying

emmajones1976

pelirocco said:

EmrysWyllt said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

I mean if people want to go the whole hog here they may as well suggest the OP sells up, uses the computers in the local library to work every day, and then heads down to the subway to sleep every night under some cardboard boxes.

Do you have any useful suggestions or help for the OP to save the 90% on their energy bills that they intend to save?

Pointing out the difficulties of doing so by using a ridiculous example of how to do it will hopefully make it clear to the OP  that it's a fools errand. For the sake of clarity, I was not, in fact, seriously suggesting that the OP use rainwater to save money on their energy bills. Does that set your mind at rest?

No, because I think cutting usage by 90% is inpossible unless you want to smell revolting, live like a hermit, not get enough light and generally have a throughly miserable existence. Nobody should be suggesting ways to achieve this as imo its irresponsible.

So, the huge amounts of people who do this because they have to "smell revolting, live like hermits, get insufficient light and have thoroughly miserable existences". That's a very privileged statement to make. Throughout human history, the vast majority of people have had to live without electricity or gas. Significant parts of the human population of this planet still do. Your characterisation of people who have no choice is bigoted and obnoxious. I am glad I am not the OP being faced with such rudeness. Not only are you not attempting to help, you are actively attacking them.

Your narrow mindedness saddens me.

It isnt an attack at all. My point was that nobody should be actively encouraging people to cut 90% of the energy and end up having to live this way 

There is another thread where someone had described how they live this way and they have been piled on for even starting the thread.

I have helped the OP by suggesting their issues are bigger than just their energy bill and to look at their entire financial situation. I certainly wont be encouraging them to cut their energy usage by 90% and live a throughly miserable existence as a result.

Nor have I been abusive, unlike yourself.

Oh please.. Firstly the OP has chosen to live beyond their means. What about downsizing? Lad on the Hill was obviously not suggesting they did what he posted. Many people have to just exist, many live on handouts. Some people, me included, have had to live rough in the past and just survive day by day. 

He speaks truth in that many millions still live without the benefit of electric or gas supply. 

As a nation we have become to reliant on having it all. If you can’t afford your lifestyle then change it. 

This is exactly  what emmajones was saying

Indeed. If mortgaged up to the hilt to the point you cant afford to even have a fridge running, you sell up and you downsize.
Its not rocket science.
I want the OP to post their Statement of Affairs, no doubt plenty of things on there that could be cut before they start harvesting the rainwater to have baths in.

Pollycat

emmajones1976 said:

pelirocco said:

EmrysWyllt said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

LadOnTheHill said:

emmajones1976 said:

I mean if people want to go the whole hog here they may as well suggest the OP sells up, uses the computers in the local library to work every day, and then heads down to the subway to sleep every night under some cardboard boxes.

Do you have any useful suggestions or help for the OP to save the 90% on their energy bills that they intend to save?

Pointing out the difficulties of doing so by using a ridiculous example of how to do it will hopefully make it clear to the OP  that it's a fools errand. For the sake of clarity, I was not, in fact, seriously suggesting that the OP use rainwater to save money on their energy bills. Does that set your mind at rest?

No, because I think cutting usage by 90% is inpossible unless you want to smell revolting, live like a hermit, not get enough light and generally have a throughly miserable existence. Nobody should be suggesting ways to achieve this as imo its irresponsible.

So, the huge amounts of people who do this because they have to "smell revolting, live like hermits, get insufficient light and have thoroughly miserable existences". That's a very privileged statement to make. Throughout human history, the vast majority of people have had to live without electricity or gas. Significant parts of the human population of this planet still do. Your characterisation of people who have no choice is bigoted and obnoxious. I am glad I am not the OP being faced with such rudeness. Not only are you not attempting to help, you are actively attacking them.

Your narrow mindedness saddens me.

It isnt an attack at all. My point was that nobody should be actively encouraging people to cut 90% of the energy and end up having to live this way 

There is another thread where someone had described how they live this way and they have been piled on for even starting the thread.

I have helped the OP by suggesting their issues are bigger than just their energy bill and to look at their entire financial situation. I certainly wont be encouraging them to cut their energy usage by 90% and live a throughly miserable existence as a result.

Nor have I been abusive, unlike yourself.

Oh please.. Firstly the OP has chosen to live beyond their means. What about downsizing? Lad on the Hill was obviously not suggesting they did what he posted. Many people have to just exist, many live on handouts. Some people, me included, have had to live rough in the past and just survive day by day. 

He speaks truth in that many millions still live without the benefit of electric or gas supply. 

As a nation we have become to reliant on having it all. If you can’t afford your lifestyle then change it. 

This is exactly  what emmajones was saying

Indeed. If mortgaged up to the hilt to the point you cant afford to even have a fridge running, you sell up and you downsize.
Its not rocket science.
I want the OP to post their Statement of Affairs, no doubt plenty of things on there that could be cut before they start harvesting the rainwater to have baths in.

I don't think that is unreasonable, I too suggested it several pages back.

The OP seems to want to concentrate on cutting fuel costs.

QrizB

Nathalia said:

Is there any possibility of taking in a lodger?  Ir's not ideal but could bring in a decent amount of money until you are all back on your feet again.

That's a good point. OP has a six-bed house with three people living in it. There's definitely scope to rent a room (or two).

emmajones1976 said:

I want the OP to post their Statement of Affairs, no doubt plenty of things on there that could be cut before they start harvesting the rainwater to have baths in.

and

Pollycat said:

emmajones1976 said:

I want the OP to post their Statement of Affairs, no doubt plenty of things on there that could be cut before they start harvesting the rainwater to have baths in.

I don't think that is unreasonable, I too suggested it several pages back.

Thirded. From the sounds of it they're a household of three white-collar professionals, with two of them working from home and the third seeking employment. It would be helpful to see where all the money is going. The "excessive energy bill" could be a bit of a red herring.

greenbee

Floss said:

OP if you're renovating a Victorian property, have you got floorboards or carpets? If it's floorboards, get hold of some rugs as that will warm up your rooms a bit. 

Also, do you all turn off your pc every night  or are they left running? 

I try not to think about how much my laptop and 4 screens cost me to run ... but when I'm looking at energy costs I bear in mind that I need to make sure I can work effectively and this includes heating my office so I can both think and type. 

Like @thriftwizard I wear a lot of wool as it's warm without restricting movement, and I can make myself look respectable on video calls. My office is tiny, and can - if necessary - be heated by a single oil-filled electric radiator rather than the oil-fired central heating. However, I do struggle with cold so prioritize heat.

While I was renovating (I think I've finished...) I scrounged carpet, underlay and rugs to cover the concrete floors downstairs and the boards upstairs. I still use layers at the windows - roller blinds and then thermal-lined curtains/blinds. I also try to track down and resolve draughts. But also open the windows regularly to keep humidity down. The blinds @thriftwizard mentioned are great - cuphooks in the window frame, a rectangle of fabric with dowelling top and bottom, slits cut at the top for the hooks to go through, and ties sewn back and front so you can roll them up - you want to make the most of natural light during the day. 

Open fires and stoves aren't necessarily money-saving - it depends on whether you have a source of fuel. It can be expensive to have the chimney checked and  lined, and have a stove properly installed. Your insurance may also require professional chimney sweeping. And logs, solid fuel and kindling cost money. I'm currently coming to the end (after 8 years) of logs from the trees I had taken down in my first few years here, and the fire will then become a luxury. I've also burned pallets and all the wood from the renovations (floorboards, stairs etc), and use old fence panels and trellis as kindling (my neighbours have just taken down a fence and I now have a pile waiting to be turned into kindling and refill the bin). This kind of fuel also requires storage (much like oil). 

Programming does mean sitting still for long periods, so keeping warm enough not to need heading is harder. Hot water bottles can help, and regular breaks to do something active and keep circulation going. Also hot drinks. Cooking in the slow cooker can help keep a room warm, and hot food is important if you're reducing the ambient temperature. Thermal bag/haybox cooking is also useful, but doesn't have the benefit of heating the room. 

Do work out whether you can work in one room (but remember, whatever your solution, don't take action that impacts on your quality of work and ability to hang on to your job), and also think about how you can reduce heat loss. I frequently see insulation materials on freegle, so you may be able to pick stuff up that will allow you to improve the energy efficiency of your home over the summer so you're better prepared for next winter.

While I'm not sure I could manage with a weekly shower, do consider whether you can cut down and have a strip wash some days. And depending on the amount of water your shower uses, you may find a shallow bath (I was at a boarding school for a while where we were limited to 3 inches of water) is a cheaper option - or a slightly deeper bath if you're fairly clean and are prepared to share bathwater in order of grubbiness

RAS

See if you can find this programme anywhere on t'web? 

BBC Two - The Great Big Energy Saving Challenge

The participants ranged from gas guzzlers to a single parent with two kids who was already the lowest energy user.

The fascinating thing was that gas guzzlers thought they'd won because they exceeded the challenge by a good margin, admittingly by buying in takeaways to avoid cooking!

And the guy with two kids made up paper mache and filled every small draught under the skirting boards, everywhere. He cut over 50%, maybe 60%, off his already low bills.

OP, if hubbie is not working, put him to work sourcing stuff like left-over insulation, and draught excluding everywhere.  And if need be temporary floorcoverings. Or curtains being given away?

Can you partition off part of the house so you don't have to heat it, just wipe down the windows in the morning and air occasionally.

A family member has a large rambling house. Dusk always sees us going into every room and closing the curtains. Definitely raises the temperature a few degrees, and cuts draughts.

Make a wonderbag to cook supper. 

Ensure you are using the most energy efficient lamps in the most used rooms.

Keep yourselves warm, not the house.  Agree a "shower time" if you use electric, so you can heat that room for a short while and all benefit. You could go for wet, turn off, lather, and then rinse. Flannel yourselves down before leaving the enclosure.

And as you cut energy use look at providers who charge per Kwh without a standing charge. 

Happy_Sloth

hey there,  the last thing i want is for people to argue.  I accept perhaps i was little dramatic. 

Someone asked for a SOA here it is. 

[font=courier new][b]Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet[/b][b]

Household Information[/b]

Number of adults in household........... 3

Number of children in household......... 

Number of cars owned.................... 2[b]

Monthly Income Details[/b]

Monthly income after tax................ 3200

Partners monthly income after tax....... 0

Benefits................................ 0

Other income............................ 500[b]

Total monthly income.................... 3700[/b][b]

Monthly Expense Details[/b]

Mortgage................................ 1250

Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 797

Council tax............................. 213

Electricity............................. 200

Gas..................................... 100

Water rates............................. 51.19

Mobile phone............................ 38

TV Licence.............................. 13.37

Internet Services and TV....................... 45

Groceries etc. ......................... 200

Petrol/diesel........................... 60

Road tax................................ 10

Car Insurance........................... 120.43

Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20

Pet insurance/vet bills................. 42.65

Buildings and Contents insurance..................... 70.43

Life assurance ......................... 44.89

Other insurance......................... 114.49   -- These are related to my business not expansible. 

Son Living Expenses..................... 200  -- Son is in UNI as higher earners he gets the minimum loan, which doens't cover his rent, this tops up his rent and gives him money for food/expences, he also has a part time job so funds the rest himself. 

Pension................................. 114  -- Private Pension as i'm self employed. 

Appliance Insurance..................... 9.49[b]

Total monthly expenses.................. 3713.94[/b]

[b]

Assets[/b]

Cash.................................... 0

House value (Gross)..................... 350000

Shares and bonds........................ 0

Car(s).................................. 12000

Other assets............................ 0[b]

Total Assets............................ 362000[/b]

[b]

Secured & HP Debts[/b]

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR

Mortgage...................... 135686...(1250).....3.5

Bank Loan.................. 2365.84..(291)......3.3

Car loan ...... 6551.....(161)......4.5<

Kitchen........................5800.....(164)......5.2<

HSBC...........................7222.4...(181)......3.8[b]

Total secured & HP debts...... 157625.2.-.........-   [/b]

[b]Unsecured Debts[/b]

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR

Credit Card....................800.......16.24.....18

Overdraft 1....................3000......44........0

Overdraft 2....................2500......35........0[b]

Total unsecured debts..........6300......95.24.....-  [/b]

[b]

Monthly Budget Summary[/b]

Total monthly income.................... 3,700

Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 3,713.94

Available for debt repayments........... -13.94

Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 95.24[b]

Amount short for making debt repayments. -109.18[/b]

[b]Personal Balance Sheet Summary[/b]

Total assets (things you own)........... 362,000

Total HP & Secured debt................. -157,625.24

Total Unsecured debt.................... -6,300[b]

Net Assets.............................. 198,074.76[/b]

[i]Created using the SOA calculator at www.stoozing.com. 

Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.[/i][/font]

emmajones1976

£120 in car insurance a MONTH?!

What are you driving?