What is fly tipping?

Sandtree

Outside our development is a bus stop and next to that bus stop is a public rubbish bin.  Our neighbour has received a fine for fly tipping with photos showing him coming out holding a bottle and a pasty or something and disposing them in the bin. The rest of the video would have shown him sitting at the bus stop, finishing off the food/drink and then throwing the empty packaging away.

The council letter states that bins are not to be used for the disposal of domestic waste and as such its fly tipping and the fairly modest fine stands.

Is there a formal definition of fly tipping? Would using a bin near your front door for such purposes fall within it?

Grumpy_chap

Order of magnitude seem to be the critical thing here.

Our Council do say they will consider fly tipping if residents dispose of their household waste in the bins in the park, which are for park visitors to use and not available for that purpose if local residents fill them up.  I've never known it to be enforced, nor have I known any resident take rubbish from their house to deposit in the bins in the park (it would be more effort than using your own bins which is collected weekly from the kerbside).  I do know residents who have visited the park and had an ice cream or something and then throw the waste in the park bins.  That seems to be inline with the rules and I would say not fly tipping.

We also have some recycle bins nearby where there is a problem with certain people disposing of excess volume of waste:


This I would say is definitely fly tipping.

The case as you describe for your neighbour seems more akin to the ice-cream in the park and I would say not fly tipping. 

Unfortunately, the definition provided by our Council and the neighbouring Council includes "fly tipping" as "disposal of domestic household waste in communal waste bins", which is consistent with the don't use the bins the park - they are for park users.  A strict interpretation of that would capture your neighbour "bang to rights".

I am still of the view, based on what was described, that your neighbour acted reasonably and correctly, so how to build a defence?

1. Has the neighbour requested the full video?
2. What are the time-stamps on the two stills provided?
3. How does the Council account for the time waiting for the bus, eating the pasty and then using the bin?
4. Did the neighbour then get the bus and can they prove it?  Do they still have the ticket?

Sandtree

1) I’ll check 
2) they’re like 3 minutes apart or so. The bus stop is literally 4 steps from the gate.
3) they’ve not commented on it 
4) yes they took the bus but it’s London so just a contactless payment and no ticket given

Grumpy_chap

Contactless / Oyster electronic records of journey travelled are available.  You have to navigate to some obscure part of the TFL website.

bris

Fly tipping is disposing rubbish anywhere you are not supposed to.

Whilst you neighbours fine seems a bit harsh he didn't need to use the bus stops bin when he is not using the bus stop.

I suppose you could say the bin is for people waiting on a bus. 

Strange they had a video, perhaps your neighbour is a serial user of that bin despite living next to it and having his own bin.. Seems like they wanted to catch him.

Grumpy_chap

bris said:

he didn't need to use the bus stops bin when he is not using the bus stop.

the bin is for people waiting on a bus. 

But the neighbour did use the bus stop to wait for a bus which the neighbour took.

Sandtree said:

4) yes they took the bus 

coffeehound

Did the bottle go straight in the bin or was he still drinking from it?  Think that would be pivotal

sevenhills

Sandtree said:

Is there a formal definition of fly tipping? Would using a bin near your front door for such purposes fall within it?

I would assume that someone has seen him do it numerous times and complained to the council?

I saw a shop do the same thing today and I have seen other shops do it too. It's ok, so long as they don't get caught.

Sandtree

coffeehound said:

Did the bottle go straight in the bin or was he still drinking from it?  Think that would be pivotal

The pictures are ultimately from CCTV so all you can see is that he walks out of his home carrying two items and then 3 minutes later throws the packaging in the bin. You'd certainly say that the food item has compressed in size suggesting consumption. The drink bottle is harder to say but he says it had some left in it which he consumed outside at the bus stop and threw away in the bin provided once empty.

Sicard

To me it smacks of another way of a council extracting money in these financially difficult times.

DingDongitsKingKong

This sounds completely idiotic but unfortunately not unprecedented. Heck I am probably breaking some kind of law right now. So if I walk out of my house with a can of coke and a packet of crisps, consume them and then discard them into a litter bin at a bus stop, I have committed an offence? If so then should bins have instructions on them? Are we allowed to throw things in bins when the bins are wet but the garbage is still dry?