Being taken to court for two PCNs from VCS for stopping at Liverpool Airport in 2018

Coupon-mad

Not sure. So sorry this all conspired against you and against justice.

See what @bargepole or @Johnersh think.

bargepole

Complaints about Judges do not go to the local Circuit Judge, they are dealt with by the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office: Judicial Conduct Investigations Office  · Customer Self-Service

However, they will only consider complaints about the Judge's conduct, eg was he rude and shouting, was he disrespectful to the parties, did he fall asleep during the hearing, and so on.

The actual Judgment cannot be the subject of a complaint, this can only be challenged by way of an appeal, which cannot happen in this case because the parties have agreed a Tomlin Order.

Umkomaas

There's more than one way of exacting revenge on a PPC. PE decided to harass one of my children over 9 years ago, triggering my anger ...... and I'm still here every day causing them and all other PPCs as much disruption as I can. Target your frustration differently, think outside the box and cost them (and other PPCs) far more than they have extracted from you. 

There are others who have come here with PCNs to fight, and have turned against their tormentors - big time!  It's rewarding and you can become a real long term thorn in their flesh. 

Doddle1

Hi,

Could I ask for some more advice please @bargepole or @Johnersh

I sent the form to request permission to appeal and received the following email from the court. I've also copied the court order below. 

Before I pay £129 can I check whether the email is the court granting me permission to appeal or just a standard reposnse and I'll have to pay £129 to be told that I can't appeal a Tomlin order. I don't want to throw any more money away but equally I feel that the Judge's decision was wrong so I have a strong case to appeal.

Many thanks for your help.  

Good Morning

The fee for an appeal in the case of a small claim is £129.00.

I note that the Order from the hearing on 14 June 2022 was sent out on 29 June 2022 and expect that you will have this at this stage. 

The Court has also received a Notice of Discontinuance from the Claimant on 1 July 2022 and I understand they also sent a copy to you.

If you wish to continue with your application, please arrange to contact the Court in order to pay the fee of £129.00 over the phone by card – please note, however, that fees can only be taken after 10:00 am and before 2:00 pm on weekdays.  If you wish to send a cheque instead, this should be made payable to “HM Courts & Tribunals Service” – please let us know by email if this is what you wish to do.

If you do not wish to continue with your application, please advise by email.

Court staff are unable to provide legal advice.

 

bargepole

The £129 fee is for filing the N164 form. It doesn't mean that leave to appeal has been granted, it just means that a Circuit Judge will look at the papers, and decide whether an appeal can proceed. If permission is refused, you do not get the fee refunded.

In view of the fact that a Tomlin Order has been agreed, it is almost certain that  leave to appeal will not be granted. It will be a waste of £129 in my opinion.

Coupon-mad

bargepole said:

The £129 fee is for filing the N164 form. It doesn't mean that leave to appeal has been granted, it just means that a Circuit Judge will look at the papers, and decide whether an appeal can proceed. If permission is refused, you do not get the fee refunded.

In view of the fact that a Tomlin Order has been agreed, it is almost certain that  leave to appeal will not be granted. It will be a waste of £129 in my opinion.

Where does the notice of discontinuance come into all this?

Snakes_Belly

"I still think it's unfair that the only reason I agreed to 'negotiate' was because the judge told me that I was liable as the RK. And then he gave me a Tomlin order which I didn't understand."

Does the judge expect you to negotiate an amount with the Claimant?  

Doddle1

Coupon-mad said:

bargepole said:

The £129 fee is for filing the N164 form. It doesn't mean that leave to appeal has been granted, it just means that a Circuit Judge will look at the papers, and decide whether an appeal can proceed. If permission is refused, you do not get the fee refunded.

In view of the fact that a Tomlin Order has been agreed, it is almost certain that  leave to appeal will not be granted. It will be a waste of £129 in my opinion.

Where does the notice of discontinuance come into all this?

I think that refers to the other almost identical PCN which I'd asked the court to consider at the same time - obviously I was hoping for a decent judge who would throw out both claims but that seems to have backfired. 

Doddle1

Snakes_Belly said:

"I still think it's unfair that the only reason I agreed to 'negotiate' was because the judge told me that I was liable as the RK. And then he gave me a Tomlin order which I didn't understand."

Does the judge expect you to negotiate an amount with the Claimant?  

At the hearing the judge opened by telling me that me case was weak - he said I was liable as the RK because he didn't know which byelaws were in place at Liverpool airport. He then dismissed my many other defence points about sineage etc as I wasn't the driver he wouldn't discus them. He made it clear he would find against me but 'kindly' offered the option to negotiate combining this and another almost identical claim which was due to be heard in September. I was completely thrown as I hadn't anticipated anything like this so I went ahead and 'negotiated' albeit from a very weak position. The figure of £317 was to cover both claims and I was definately going to lose the first one so that would have cost £280 I think. 

The Jduge very smugly thought he'd done a decent job and told the VCS rep (I sewar he winked at him) that it would be a Tomlin order - the VCS rep must have been wetting himself with excitement as that meant that I couldn't appeal (I didn't know that at the time. 

With hindsight I wouldn't have negotiated and I would NEVER accept a Tomlin order. I had the option to adjourn the case as VCS had sent their WS to an incorrect email address so I hadn't seen it (despite chasing them and the court a few days before).  

I was very niave and the court is quite intimidating - I expected a fair hearing not a biased judge. I'd read lots of threads on here and was grateful for the advice and feedback from other hearings.  

For anyone else preparing for a hearing I hope my experience helps - unexpected things can happen so it's important to know your defence inside out and don't let a judge bully you - if you're right stand your ground. If the worst happens and you get a rogue judge let them find against you and then appeal. 

  

Anchovie

Shocked to read this. As a general question, when is a Defendant notified of the Judges name?. Could they then ask for a different Judge than Sanderson ?