How to live without heating - save £000s

Ildhund

wrf12345 said:

... empty and unheated houses can end up with a lot of mould ...

I'm aware of some of the dangers of cold, damp conditions indoors. What I don't understand is why we're told it feels colder if the humidity is high in Lancashire, but hotter in Louisiana.

A related question is why living or sleeping in cold air is bad for those with respiratory problems. We know, for example, that the low density of air at high altitudes makes breathing more difficult - think Everest climbers with their oxygen masks, or footballers from lower-lying countries suffering at the high-altitude venues at the 1984 World Cup in Mexico. So cold air, being more dense that warmer air, should make breathing easier - shouldn't it? 
  
'A' level Physics didn't help with these conundrums.

masonic

Ildhund said:

wrf12345 said:

... empty and unheated houses can end up with a lot of mould ...

I'm aware of some of the dangers of cold, damp conditions indoors. What I don't understand is why we're told it feels colder if the humidity is high in Lancashire, but hotter in Louisiana.

At low temperatures, high humidity tends to make clothing moist and therefore reduces its insulating properties. At high temperatures, high humidity impairs evaporation of sweat. I think the effect of the former is exaggerated though. I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference in warmth between a cold damp day and cold crisp day of the same temperature (controlling for factors like sunlight), but I can definitely tell the difference between a humid hot day and a dry hot day of the same temperature.

Ildhund said:
A related question is why living or sleeping in cold air is bad for those with respiratory problems. We know, for example, that the low density of air at high altitudes makes breathing more difficult - think Everest climbers with their oxygen masks, or footballers from lower-lying countries suffering at the high-altitude venues at the 1984 World Cup in Mexico. So cold air, being more dense that warmer air, should make breathing easier - shouldn't it?

Cold air is only denser until it is inhaled, makes contact with the mucosa/lungs etc, and warms. At the point of gas exchange with the blood, it is probably about the same temperature as inhaled warm air.

Sleeping in cold air increases your overall metabolic burden as you lose heat breathing the air. If your lung tissue is poorly perfused with blood, exposure to cold air could reduce its efficiency. It can also lead to inflammation and mucous production.

Eldi_Dos

Sea_Shell said:

As @HertsLad is someone who will know LOTS about temperature and humidity and their relationship to each other.

Should I be worried about soft furnishings in an environment of low temps (9°c) with humidity at 80%

For example in an unheated, unoccupied, Caravan?

Or is high humidity only a problem at warmer temps? 

Do you winter proof your caravan before layin up for the winter, I am thinking along the lines of using RV Antifreeze in water lines and water traps.
Make sure to remove any bedding and allow airflow into cupboards.

Eldi_Dos

QrizB said:

I'm a (temporary and involuntary) convert to this lifestyle as my gas boiler has stopped, er, boiling

Fortunately it's only October and still mild, plus I've got an immersion heater for hot water.

Luckily enough new season hotwater bottles have been appearing in our shops over the last couple of weeks if thats any help.

Sea_Shell

Eldi_Dos said:

Sea_Shell said:

As @HertsLad is someone who will know LOTS about temperature and humidity and their relationship to each other.

Should I be worried about soft furnishings in an environment of low temps (9°c) with humidity at 80%

For example in an unheated, unoccupied, Caravan?

Or is high humidity only a problem at warmer temps? 

Do you winter proof your caravan before layin up for the winter, I am thinking along the lines of using RV Antifreeze in water lines and water traps.
Make sure to remove any bedding and allow airflow into cupboards.

Yep, that's all on our "to-do" list.   Some already done.

silverwhistle

Just a heads up for those that may be interested: Lidl have warm winter clothing on sale next Thursday including base layers. Prices are good for those of you who don't wash them for the winter season, or maybe I misread some of the comments above..;-)

wrf12345

Long sleeve t-shirts at under two quid on Amazon, should be free delivery to locker, sizes are UK based.

Ildhund

masonic said:
At low temperatures, high humidity tends to make clothing moist and therefore reduces its insulating properties. At high temperatures, high humidity impairs evaporation of sweat. 

OK, so there are other factors involved that aren't usually mentioned. High humidity at low temperatures makes one feel colder because clothing doesn't insulate so well. So strip off to stay warm, like eskimos in their igloos? And what is the effect of clothing in the high-temperature, high-humidity environment? Good, bad or none? Better to wear Speedos or a burqa?

There must be a curve showing the 'chill/warm effect' on the human body of humidity against temperature, just like a wind-chill chart. I just can't imagine what it looks like, or where it would cross the x-axis, or perhaps it's discontinuous. I just wish I had more insight into the physical and physiological aspects of the topic.  

masonic

Ildhund said:

masonic said:
At low temperatures, high humidity tends to make clothing moist and therefore reduces its insulating properties. At high temperatures, high humidity impairs evaporation of sweat. 

OK, so there are other factors involved that aren't usually mentioned. High humidity at low temperatures makes one feel colder because clothing doesn't insulate so well. So strip off to stay warm, like eskimos in their igloos? And what is the effect of clothing in the high-temperature, high-humidity environment? Good, bad or none? Better to wear Speedos or a burqa?

There must be a curve showing the 'chill/warm effect' on the human body of humidity against temperature, just like a wind-chill chart. I just can't imagine what it looks like, or where it would cross the x-axis, or perhaps it's discontinuous. I just wish I had more insight into the physical and physiological aspects of the topic.  

It is said that it is better to not to sleep naked on a hot night, presumably due to the wick effect of the right fabric. But if it is very humid then the insulating effect could well take over, and wrapping yourself in the wrong fabric can make things much worse. The trouble with these scenarios is that there are a lot of variables operating, so a simple 2D plot probably wouldn't work. Even the colour of clothing can potentially have some small impact.

It's also worth bearing in mind that relative humidity more meaningful at higher temperatures than cold (air is saturated at less than 5 g per cubic metre at freezing and 30 g at 30C). So the difference in evaporative capacity of low humidity vs high humidity cold air is small. This also means that temperature isn't everything. Whether humid air is cooling or warming can be a factor too.

Sea_Shell

masonic said:

Ildhund said:

masonic said:
At low temperatures, high humidity tends to make clothing moist and therefore reduces its insulating properties. At high temperatures, high humidity impairs evaporation of sweat. 

OK, so there are other factors involved that aren't usually mentioned. High humidity at low temperatures makes one feel colder because clothing doesn't insulate so well. So strip off to stay warm, like eskimos in their igloos? And what is the effect of clothing in the high-temperature, high-humidity environment? Good, bad or none? Better to wear Speedos or a burqa?

There must be a curve showing the 'chill/warm effect' on the human body of humidity against temperature, just like a wind-chill chart. I just can't imagine what it looks like, or where it would cross the x-axis, or perhaps it's discontinuous. I just wish I had more insight into the physical and physiological aspects of the topic.  

It's also worth bearing in mind that relative humidity more meaningful at higher temperatures than cold (air is saturated at less than 5 g per cubic metre at freezing and 30 g at 30C). 

That was part of the original point that I was raising (asking about) in that 80% humidity at low temps, doesn't mean that there is any more water in the air, than might be at a lower %, but higher temp.  

If you had the same 5g of water in 30c of temp, would that be very low humidity of 16% ?