How to live without heating - save £000s

wild666

markin said:

wild666 said:

PennineAcute said:

maisie_cat said:

PennineAcute said:

Around March last year, my 12 year old fridge freezer gave up the ghost.  I could not afford a new one, so bought a second hand fridge to keep me going.  Elec consumption fell around 1 kWh a day.  Over the summer, I then bought a new fridge freezer and noticed very little difference in energy consumption.  If a fridge freezer is not an essential for an individual, but has around the same runnning costs as a fridge, I'll take the luxury anytime.

I've just tested the consumption of our chest freezer in the garage and it uses approx 0.25 KWH per day, the fridge freezer in the kitchen uses twice that. So neither make up a large proportion of our 10KWh per day

The last holiday I had, back in 2017, according to my IHD, I used an averaged of 2.2 kWh a day.  Before leaving, I turned everything off besides the fridge freezer and house alarm.  So around 92 W an hour.

Now, with new fridge freezer, my first 7.5 hours usage of each day uses 0.818 kWh, so an hourly average of 109 W.  This includes by two fish tank filters (75 W for both), so an hourly average of 35 W for both fridge freezer and house alarm.

My very unscientific calculations mean than my new FF is using 57 W an hour less than my old one, so 1.37 kWh fewer a day.

Considering my daily usage is around 5 kWh a day - it takes 28% of my daily usage.

5 kWh per day my normal daily usage is around 3 kWh per day but has being known to drop to as low as 1.7 kWh some days and as high as 11 kWh when the grandkids are down playing the XBox on the large screen TV, or monitor as I call it, as  I don't have a TV licence.

I don't think the xbox should be using more than 200w, so even if it was 300w x12hrs 3.6kw, The TV must be old and power hungry, not a plasma is it?

The TV is a 2019 Philips 65" G rated so I understand that it uses more than my old LG 43" 2011 model.

HertsLad

GingerTim said:

The more layers of clothing you wear, the more heat is trapped against your body. The hotter your body becomes, the harder your heart has to work to regulate your body temperature to normal. If your heart is regularly working to keep your body temperature down, at a rate considerably higher than an average resting rate, then you are in an increased risk profile for problems.

You also have to take into account restrictions on blood flow from too many layers, and pressures put on your body from carrying a lot more weight from the extra clothing.

Your first point sounds like being far too warm. Imagine if I went to my GP with heat stroke and explained it was from living in an unheated house. I think I would know if I am too warm. It can happen to anyone and all that's needed is to remove some layers.

Your second point sounds unlikely too, in my case. None of the clothing is tight fitting or restrictive and neither does it feel very heavy.

My blood pressure has always been normal when checked at the surgery and various places. I will start checking it at home.

If my blood pressure is normal and I feel at a very comfortable temperature, can I still be at risk?

GingerTim

HertsLad said:

GingerTim said:

The more layers of clothing you wear, the more heat is trapped against your body. The hotter your body becomes, the harder your heart has to work to regulate your body temperature to normal. If your heart is regularly working to keep your body temperature down, at a rate considerably higher than an average resting rate, then you are in an increased risk profile for problems.

You also have to take into account restrictions on blood flow from too many layers, and pressures put on your body from carrying a lot more weight from the extra clothing.

Your first point sounds like being far too warm. Imagine if I went to my GP with heat stroke and explained it was from living in an unheated house. I think I would know if I am too warm. It can happen to anyone and all that's needed is to remove some layers.

Your second point sounds unlikely too, in my case. None of the clothing is tight fitting or restrictive and neither does it feel very heavy.

My blood pressure has always been normal when checked at the surgery and various places. I will start checking it at home.

If my blood pressure is normal and I feel at a very comfortable temperature, can I still be at risk?

On the first point, that's not heatstroke - it's about how hard your heart has to work to regulate your temperature. Too many layers and it will have to work harder and for longer.

On the second point, it may be unlikely in your case. But we are rightly told to keep to a healthy weight to prevent pressure on and long-term damage to our heart and circulatory system. At work today I'm wearing trousers, a shirt, and jumper, and that's already an extra four kilos on top of my body weight. Multiple layers will add up more than you might expect, especially those lined trousers you were talking about. It's a physiologically uncontroversial fact that your heart works harder when you carry more weight.

And once again, this might work for you - great! But it's not a universal solution and for many going to these extremes can cause considerable harm. 

PennineAcute

There are only so many changes you can make, without them having a negative effect.

I watch less TV and listen to the radio more often.  Besides my fishtanks, I cannot reduce my electricity comsumption any further than I have done.  There is no way I am drying clothes in my flat - this only cause one thing, which is damp and worse.

I could reduce my heating - my gas bill for this year, I estimate to me around £400, up from £240 last year - so around a £3 pw increase.  There is no way on earth that I could kit myself out for arctic conditions for £3pw.  Yes, I work so am luckily than some.  My hours are not great, but I have a decent hourly rate.

The OP's post reminds me of something awesome that Trump came out with around April '20.  Maybe we could inject bleach into our bodies to kill Covid.  One has to be careful what one types or says, as there is always that one person who may try injecting bleach and then realise it was not the best of ideas.

mumf

I have been following this with interest. Our own house has two multi fuel stoves ,which we use as primary  heating.We don’t spare the horses with them,and they get used ! We have electric radiators in every room as secondary heating,for when the stoves are not lit. Frankly,we don’t overuse them.In fact ,my wife likes windows and doors open when others may have central heating banging away! What do we do in between? Like our predecessors in this 1800’s house,we wear clothes! Since the late sixties onwards,our society would sooner crank up the heat ,rather than wear clothes.Our son in law routinely walks around his house in shorts and vest because it’s so damned hot - in January!

Now,we don’t do without heating ;far from it , although our way of keeping warm is not mainstream or conventional in the modern sense. We wear clothes though. It’s easy to remove my thin fleece when I am too warm in the living room,and easy to put it back on!

Right now the world is undergoing an energy transition. I am not talking about our world governments obsession with ‘ Net Zero’ ( what cobblers!), but the gradual decline of cheap,easily tapped oil and gas GLOBALLY. Reading the boards here,there seems to be an idea that we will return to cheaper energy ,and the ability to switch providers sometime soon. The world is running out of easily tapped energy,whilst at the same time ,continuing to use evermore.It’s running out : Which explains why The West is pushing ‘renewable’ energy and Net Zero - not to save the planet ,but to save the modern industrial economy we now have.

The cost of energy from now on ,will mean we have to start wearing a few more clothes I reckon. Just sayin…

pallyman

theoretica said:

HertsLad said:

SAC2334 said:

JGB1955 said:

Just thinking - I'm guessing the last time people lived without heating was in the Stone Age?  Or had they discovered fire already?

I ve been regaling younger generations for years about how we scraped the frost from the inside of bedroom windows and that was in the 50 s and 60 s when we had proper freezing winters.The house in a mining village had one small coal fire only and that was it .It never hurt me and we all got to school in the big freeze of 1963 battling through deep snow for weeks. Now someone post  some advice about how to beat the cold and someone says "report him to mods ". Times have changed..Snowflakes rule now I accept that 

Thank you very much for showing how misguided my critics were, earlier in this thread. I sort of apologized for offending anyone at one stage. After re-reading my original post, I simply cannot understand how anyone could be offended. All I suggested is that I myself found it less than intuitive to discover what I need to wear. My thinking is/was that maybe my findings of the clothes I wear, might help others who either can't pay or won't pay. I never said anyone was stupid but one member put words in my mouth. As a result, if the mods need to contact anyone for stirring up trouble, I suggest it is those people who need to be warned and not me.

Really?  I find a discussion of what clothes you find keep you warmest perfectly acceptable.  Victim blaming people who have died is not and you come across remarkably clueless in that aspect and arrogant in your own physical health and metabolism. As you said in one post you only know what works for you - stick to that and it isn't offensive and people can share or copy or not as they choose.  Or learn a lot more about the differences between wearing more clothes in a cold atmosphere and being in a warmer place.

I am probably biased, because to me your great discoveries about clothes are things I have known all my life. I wonder if there is a man thing going on, as I expect many women have twigged the difference wearing tights makes.

HertsLad said:

I am sorry to read Martin Lewis say he fears people will die because a lot of people cannot afford heating. I agree but regard it as sad. The Government, Councils, charities and other public bodies could do a lot more to advise people on what to wear so many of those people should be able to stay perfectly warm without any heating at all. For me, the choice between eating and heating is a no-brainer. The priority should be eating because it's essential to keep warm. But the main message from these bodies and organisations is to warm your home to 20C, as if everyone can afford it. 

HertsLad said:

With respect, I suggest that's fine, if you have the money to pay for the heating at a lower level. I do but I'd sooner spend the money on other things. I am troubled that the main message from other members is that it's better for old, frail or otherwise vulnerable people to die from the cold, rather than for anyone try following my advice. Do they think that if these people wear as many clothes as I do, then they will die even quicker.

I used to wear a couple of pairs when i was driving fork lifts outside in winter ,worked a treat.

Chris_English

SAC2334 said:

JGB1955 said:

Just thinking - I'm guessing the last time people lived without heating was in the Stone Age?  Or had they discovered fire already?

I ve been regaling younger generations for years about how we scraped the frost from the inside of bedroom windows and that was in the 50 s and 60 s when we had proper freezing winters.The house in a mining village had one small coal fire only and that was it .It never hurt me and we all got to school in the big freeze of 1963 battling through deep snow for weeks. Now someone post  some advice about how to beat the cold and someone says "report him to mods ". Times have changed..Snowflakes rule now I accept that 

I’m not sure how this is relevant; are you claiming that there was no form of heating at all in your house growing up? You suggest that there was a fire, so what has this to do with not heating a house at all?

Chris_English

OP, do you have no wife, or children? Do you not have visitors to your house, or family staying over?

HertsLad

Chris_English said:

OP, do you have no wife, or children? Do you not have visitors to your house, or family staying over?

No/none to all those questions, as it happens.

HertsLad

Multiple layers will add up more than you might expect, especially those lined trousers you were talking about. It's a physiologically uncontroversial fact that your heart works harder when you carry more weight.

You may be correct but it seems unlikely. Weight training is supposed to be good for you and I see joggers out carrying rucksacks with weights inside. Perhaps it's good for me as a sort of micro weight training for 16 hours a day.