Advice re disastrously unsafe roof

Zimm190

I’d like to get some advice about a faulty roof extension please – we moved into a house in June that had been extended about four years ago. The Level 3 survey picked up various issues and we’ve been working through them as time and money allow. It was apparent early on that the extension work had been carried out to a poor standard.

Whilst having a chimney stack removed from the original roof and loft this week the builders said that the roof extension is dangerously unsafe; the whole thing is basically balanced on some timbers (the timbers don’t go through the wall at either end). The outer wall is not connected to the inner either – where there should be a cobweb of ties there is nothing.

The builders said that they should alert Building Control but if they did, Building Control would condemn that part of the house and we wouldn’t be able to live here (until it’s fixed I assume). Builders are saying £10k for the repairs needed; we have some money saved but not this much.

I’ve been unable to find out who carried out the extension work but we have the signed-off completion certificate from the council Building Regs.

If anyone could offer advice or insight on the situation, particularly the below please, that would be great.

Thanks!

1 Do we have any recourse for building regs not being met despite sign off?

2 The same re the survey – it mentioned the chimney stack and some faulty wiring in the roof void, plus a wooden lintel that should be concrete, but not the unsafe roof support.

3 Is there a chance we will have o move out?

4 Do we need to wait to get planning permission for the repairs even if it is unsafe?

Ditzy_Mitzy

1) Obtain hefty pinch of salt
2) Sprinkle on builder's recent comments

By all means seek a second opinion but the 'OMG ur roof is gonna COLLAPSE M8' patter ought to be the thing setting off the alarm bells in the first instance.  It might not be cowboy talk, but it is the sort of thing a cowboy would say.  

user1977

But in answer to some of your questions, no you have no recourse against the original builders or the council about the standard the work was done to.

If your surveyor ought to have spotted the defects within the parameters of their survey (and you'd need the evidence of another surveyor to back that up, which might be tricky if you've since had your own builder messing around with things) then you would have a claim against them.

Thrugelmir

Zimm190 said:

 

3 Is there a chance we will have o move out?

Do you feel safe knowing that the roof could potentially collapse down on you? Presumably the builders could put in temporary structural reinforcement to hold the beams up. 

sheramber

Thrugelmir said:

Zimm190 said:

 

3 Is there a chance we will have o move out?

Do you feel safe knowing that the roof could potentially collapse down on you? Presumably the builders could put in temporary structural reinforcement to hold the beams up. 

if what the builders say is true.

Especially with saying they should  report it to the council, but  won't if you pay us £10,000 .

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP if you post over on the DIY board with some photos of the roof structure and other issues such as the ties there are knowledgeable posters there who can probably advise on the state of the roof and what needs to be done. They can also also advise whether any work currently being carried out requires building regulations, does your builder want to do you a favour so you can live in an (apparently) unsafe house or do they not want building inspectors looking at their work?  

Regarding the survey, info below on what to expect from a Level 3 survey, if you feel this wasn't met perhaps worth a post on the Home Buying board for details on how to deal with survey issues. 

As far as consumer rights go you won't have any cover with the builders who did the work as you didn't have a contract with them. 

You can make a formal complaint to the council about anything they do really but should they find wrong doing and take any action I think it would be an internal thing rather than of any monetary value to you but the council would be the best people to advise you on this aspect.

 

Level 3 survey details: 

https://www.rics.org/globalassets/rics-website/media/upholding-professional-standards/sector-standards/home-survey--2021/description-of-the-rics-home-survey-level-3.pdf

This inspection is intended to cover as much of the property as is physically accessible. Where this is not possible, an explanation is provided in the ‘Limitations on the inspection’ box in the relevant section of the report.

The surveyor does not force or open up the fabric of the building without occupier/owner consent, or if there is a risk of causing personal injury or damage. This includes taking up fitted carpets and fitted floor coverings or floorboards; moving heavy furniture; removing the contents of cupboards, roof spaces, etc. removing secured panels and/or hatches; or undoing electrical fittings.

 uses a ladder for flat roofs and for hatches no more than 3m above level ground (outside) or floor surfaces (inside) if it is safe to do so.

If it is safe and reasonable to do so, the surveyor will enter the roof space and visually inspect the roof structure with attention paid to those parts vulnerable to deterioration and damage. Although thermal insulation is not moved, small corners should be lifted so its thickness and type, and the nature of underlying ceiling can be identified (if the surveyor considers it safe to do). The surveyor does not move stored goods or other contents. 

Aylesbury_Duck

As above, get a second opinion.  There are plenty of cowboys out there looking for an easy mark.

Zimm190 said:

1 Do we have any recourse for building regs not being met despite sign off?

2 The same re the survey – it mentioned the chimney stack and some faulty wiring in the roof void, plus a wooden lintel that should be concrete, but not the unsafe roof support.

3 Is there a chance we will have o move out?

4 Do we need to wait to get planning permission for the repairs even if it is unsafe?

1. No.
2. Check the remit of the survey and whether it was reasonable that this should have been picked up.  Was it even visible at that stage, seeing as your builders noticed it after removing a chimney stack?
3. Your choice, but even with my opening comment about being careful this isn't a cowboy trying to alarm you, do you want to risk living under a dangerous roof at a time of year where all weathers might be expected?
4. I wouldn't have thought so.  No planning department is going to enforce delays to making something safe.  You may need permission for the eventual replacement roof, but making the existing structure safe can't be prevented.

TELLIT01

One could reasonably ask what is the point of Building Control if their job is specifically to ensure that work is done in accordance with regs but it is later discovered that they actually signed off on sub-standard work?  Surely there should be some liability on them or a conformation certificate is utterly worthless.

Ergates

In terms of moving out:   The roof has been standing for several years now and hasn't fallen down - the chances of it just collapsing on your heads is quite low.  You probably want to get this resolved sooner rather than later, but you don't need to run screaming into the street just yet.

Definitely get a second opinion.  If that second opinion disagrees with the 1st set of builders, get a 3rd opinion and go with the consensus.  Then get at least 3 quotes (these can be from the people you asked opinions from).

pinkshoes

Zimm190 said:

The builders said that they should alert Building Control but if they did, Building Control would condemn that part of the house and we wouldn’t be able to live here (until it’s fixed I assume). Builders are saying £10k for the repairs needed; we have some money saved but not this much.

Really? REALLY??

They *should* report it to building control where you'd have to move out, but if you pay them £10k they'll fix it?!?!?

I would thank them for their observations, that if they need to report it to building controls then they must do that, and you'll be in touch with them about their £10k quote to have it fixed once you've had a couple of other quotes.

I'm not a gambling person but I'm going to put money on the other quotes coming in MUCH cheaper... (don't mention what the other builder has said and see if a couple of others say the same)

Zimm190

Thanks everyone for your responses. There are some useful things here for us to think about, particularly around going back to the surveyor and not panic-agreeing to a ton of work.

We had another builder come to look at it yesterday, who had a similar response (never seen something so terrible in 12 years, it'll be down with a strong wind or heavy snowfall, etc..) but they have quoted £6.5k. 

My father-in-law, a retired builder, thinks this is suspiciously cheap and has given us some questions to clarify. It's so hard to know what to do for the best!

I certainly don't like to be pressured into making a quick decision when so much money is involved, which I felt the first set of builders were trying to do.

I'm pretty sure it needs doing, and we'll get a third quote if possible, but I'm now hopeful that's it's not a £15k-move-out-due-to-imminent-collapse job. I'll post the pictures if I can.