Parking at Costa

jrc123

Was there anything wrong in the contract too?

Fruitcake

jrc123 said:

Was there anything wrong in the contract too?

I don't know. The text is too small to read, there are three pages missing, and I don't know what has and hasn't been redacted.

First of all, are the signatories, printed names, positions within the company from both companies visible, and are the dates visible in the version you have received? If not, then you should be challenging that by stating that there is no proof of a contract with or flowing from the landowner, or that it is in date.

If the names are visible, then check them against Companies House (People) records to see if they were officers of the company with the authority to form a contract at the time of the alleged event. 

If a contract did exist, then it is reasonable to assume that the PPC would produce it, which they would have to do if they wanted to take this to court.

Fruitcake

As far as I can tell, using a magnifying glass to view my laptop screen, the contract is for car park monitoring by ANPR. There is no mention of foot patrols (on the page shown). If it is not mentioned anywhere else, then the contract does not permit any method of car park monitoring other than ANPR. 
Using foot patrols would therefore be a breach of said contract.

Don't expect PoPLA to understand the legal requirement of a contract, or even consider it if they have seen a copy.

There's a contract. S'good nuff, innit.

jrc123

Noted on that they have supplied it so won’t bring that up further

it now a case of basing my appeal around poor signage and markings which is obvious based on my images

there is a small entry sign on the entrance which is not noticeable 

someone also has painted on the wall CCTV as a warning to anyone who tried to park there and also the space have metal poles surrounding it as the Costa staff must have had plenty of complaints

will continue with my POPLA appeal

if I win the POPLA appeal do they have to cancel?

KeithP

jrc123 said:

if I win the POPLA appeal do they have to cancel?

Yes.
A PoPLA decision is binding on the parking operator but is not binding on the motorist.
That last bit means that even if you were to lose a PoPLA appeal, there is still no need to pay the charge. 

Fruitcake

jrc123 said:

Noted on that they have supplied it so won’t bring that up further

it now a case of basing my appeal around poor signage and markings which is obvious based on my images

there is a small entry sign on the entrance which is not noticeable 

someone also has painted on the wall CCTV as a warning to anyone who tried to park there and also the space have metal poles surrounding it as the Costa staff must have had plenty of complaints

will continue with my POPLA appeal

if I win the POPLA appeal do they have to cancel?

Sorry, I should have made things clearer.

My comment, "There's a contract. S'good nuff, innit," was to warn you about the type of response we have seen from PoPLA. That doesn't mean you shouldn't point out all the contract failures. It is important for the government to know that PoPLA and the IAS are not fit for purpose, that the assessors are not properly trained in contract law, and in many cases we saw last year, many of them including senior assessors couldn't count to fourteen.

Umkomaas

many of them including senior assessors couldn't count to fourteen.

They've never previously had a need, they've only had to deal with 10 fingernails in the past.  😊

fisherjim

Close ups of signage on their own aren't that useful you need the wider picture also, if SV from July 21 is anything to go by the signage at the entrance is non existent, note also the tame flunky bagging a victim:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6060222,0.0543388,3a,75y,352.8h,79.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVc1wHaJbmZ-3oYJkdVChxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This paragraph from them is garbage:

The Costa bays are out of bounds and are reserved for Costa staff only and although you refer to the bays being marked Costa Only, it should not be assumed the bays are meant for Costa "Customers" only and does not display "customer" parking, which is why that private parking requirements do not rely on floor markings but clearly displayed car park signs indicating in clear terms, the parking requirements.

If parking requirements don't rely on floor markings why bother.

If "Costa Only" does not mean you can assume the bays are for Costa customers or indeed anyone having any business at costa then they should use a bit more floor marker paint and add the word staff.

They will write any old garbage to fob you off, the reality is that they do not want to spend any money on signage iff they can get away with it that's why it's so poor, old and Costa have even done some of their job for them with extra amateurish signs.

The other reason is that poor, faded, non existent and confusing signage traps more victims that might not kick up the fuss you are and just pay up.

 

jrc123

thanks for the input everyone much appreaicted.

So far this is my POPLA response:

1). Road markings as of the date of 01/01/2022 the bay has markings which say ‘COSTA ONLY’ Image 1a, the road markings have since been changed to ‘COSTA STAFF ONLY’ Image2c. This tells you the signage and marking contradict each other and are not clear.

 2). Signs are above head height (above the roof of the van in one of the photos, so over 2m to the bottom of the signs) and not visible to a driver. The first bay has the sign in (Image 1b), second bay has the sign found in (Image 1c). These signs say completely different messages and contradict each other.

3). Signs do not suitably bring the charge or parking conditions to a motorist (BPA CoP failure). Too small to read from more than the width of a car. There are two different signs showing different messages and road markings contradict this.

4). Double yellow lines removed indicating no restrictions other than the surface markings.

Anything else i should add? 2000 character only. 

Or any points i should make better?

jrc123

Hi just wondering if there was any other points to add?

thanks for the help