wedding dress ruined by dry cleaner/storage - what to claim for?

SGH33

Sandtree said:

PS. just to add... silk can be difficult to clean and you need to read the disclaimers that you inevitably agreed to before handing the dress over.

We obviously are only touching on quantum here and not the other issue of if there is any liability in the first place based on how the staining happened and what the T&C of the service was.

I did not sign any agreement nor have I found any on his website, although it has been updated recently and still nothing.

Sandtree

SGH33 said:

Thankyou.  I should imagine the value of it at the moment is very low because it is not fit for purpose!
Regards taking the dress, I just didn't want him saying that anything happened to it 
once it left the shop.

I have to admit its not something I've ever researched but if it was some very expensive brand etc I could imagine that people would take a punt on it on eBay if they think they can repair it or that it could be cleaned up. If its something more common and there are dozens of reasonable condition ones for sale at a not too expensive price then I suspect its much cheaper.

People do pay silly money for stuff sometimes... the Mrs has a couple of bits of branded jewellery and takes them in to be cleaned occasionally (for free) or repaired (not free) and each time they give her a new box. A check on eBay shows people are paying £10-£30 just for the empty boxes, more with the matching ribbon... shes got a ton of them from over the years.

You can always take a photo of the item in the shop or something but really assuming there has been no rebuttal on the letters etc is seems that it would be unlikely that he claims it was given back in perfect condition.

SGH33 said:

Sandtree said:

PS. just to add... silk can be difficult to clean and you need to read the disclaimers that you inevitably agreed to before handing the dress over.

We obviously are only touching on quantum here and not the other issue of if there is any liability in the first place based on how the staining happened and what the T&C of the service was.

I did not sign any agreement nor have I found any on his website, although it has been updated recently and still nothing.

Contracts dont requiring signing, but verbal contracts etc are hard to prove what they said.

We use two dry cleaners normally, one is near home, its cheap, not very good and everything comes back pancake flat. The other is by the office, its a bit more expensive, much better at getting stains out and middle of the road on the pressing front. Wth both of them there is clear signage at the till on the T&Cs and if you are handing over something expensive or leather/silk etc then they actively point them out. Clearly different place may have different approaches but I'd be surprised if a company doing expensive wedding dress cleaning didnt have something.

You mention website, was it booked and paid for online or in store?

SGH33

Sandtree said:

SGH33 said:

Thankyou.  I should imagine the value of it at the moment is very low because it is not fit for purpose!
Regards taking the dress, I just didn't want him saying that anything happened to it 
once it left the shop.

I have to admit its not something I've ever researched but if it was some very expensive brand etc I could imagine that people would take a punt on it on eBay if they think they can repair it or that it could be cleaned up. If its something more common and there are dozens of reasonable condition ones for sale at a not too expensive price then I suspect its much cheaper.

People do pay silly money for stuff sometimes... the Mrs has a couple of bits of branded jewellery and takes them in to be cleaned occasionally (for free) or repaired (not free) and each time they give her a new box. A check on eBay shows people are paying £10-£30 just for the empty boxes, more with the matching ribbon... shes got a ton of them from over the years.

You can always take a photo of the item in the shop or something but really assuming there has been no rebuttal on the letters etc is seems that it would be unlikely that he claims it was given back in perfect condition.

SGH33 said:

Sandtree said:

PS. just to add... silk can be difficult to clean and you need to read the disclaimers that you inevitably agreed to before handing the dress over.

We obviously are only touching on quantum here and not the other issue of if there is any liability in the first place based on how the staining happened and what the T&C of the service was.

I did not sign any agreement nor have I found any on his website, although it has been updated recently and still nothing.

Contracts dont requiring signing, but verbal contracts etc are hard to prove what they said.

We use two dry cleaners normally, one is near home, its cheap, not very good and everything comes back pancake flat. The other is by the office, its a bit more expensive, much better at getting stains out and middle of the road on the pressing front. Wth both of them there is clear signage at the till on the T&Cs and if you are handing over something expensive or leather/silk etc then they actively point them out. Clearly different place may have different approaches but I'd be surprised if a company doing expensive wedding dress cleaning didnt have something.

You mention website, was it booked and paid for online or in store?

I do think there is a chance it has also been an issue with how the dress was stored after it was cleaned as opposed to the dry cleaning process.  It was in heat, moisture and sunlight in a clear plastic dress cover underneath its original zip up bag.  Plus it wasn't collected for 4 months due to covid. So maybe if it was collected straight away it may not be so bad, is this something a judge may penalise me for?
It was a verbal booking as I just took it in after the wedding.  I do have a receipt for it.
So is it wise to take the dress and pay the other dry cleaner to try and retify it?
If they do, I just claim expenses presumably (original dry clean cost and new dry clean cost?)

Grumpy_chap

SGH33 said:

Yes, I agree with what you are saying now after yours and previous advice.  I think I am just wound up at his lack of ownership to his error and him not responding.
I have written to him in both emails and letters requesting mediation and asking if he is part of any organisation as there is nothing on his website, but he has not responded.
If I was successful in court in claiming the cost of the dress plus cleaning costs and expenses, would I still be able to keep my dress?
Would I be making a mistake if I took it from the shop now?

I had understood this was all being done by a small, local, independent dry-cleaner.  Reference of going to mediation infers dealing with a massive multinational corporate.  Which is it?

SGH33 said:

Plus it wasn't collected for 4 months due to covid. So maybe if it was collected straight away it may not be so bad, is this something a judge may penalise me for?

Where is the dress now?
Most dry cleaners I have used have a sign up, anything not collected within 30 days will be disposed of.

The 4 months delay in collection because of COVID is understood and it would be unreasonable for the dry cleaner to apply the 30 day disposal in those circumstances.  It is just I cannot see that those circumstances are still valid now, February 2022.  First lock-down was end of March 2020, so the four months was up to end of July 2020.  If the dress is still at the dry cleaners a further 18-months on then I suggest the dry cleaner's waste bin is the place to start looking.

Sandtree

SGH33 said:

So is it wise to take the dress and pay the other dry cleaner to try and retify it?
If they do, I just claim expenses presumably (original dry clean cost and new dry clean cost?)

I'd take it for an opinion but choose wisely, the quality of dry cleaners vary massively and the best one I use refuses to dry clean many things but the item is spot cleaned and comes back looking like it did the day I got it. If they are confident see if they'll only charge if they succeed.


I fear your approach is one of vast optimism of what claimable... the "correct" outcome is that you are in the same position as if covid hadnt happened, you'd gone to the dry cleaners to pick up the dress and it was fine when given to you. If that had happened you'd have had to pay for one dry cleaning. If by paying a second company they do restore it then you cannot claim for both dry cleanings because then you'd be in a better position than if the incident hadnt happened (aka betterment).

If its not repairable, or vastly expensive to repair, then the next option is to restore you to where you were just before you handed the dress over.

PS. it goes without saying that all of this is the response from a random person on a forum and ultimately the decision is yours or you should seek legal advice. If you have Legal Expenses cover on your home insurance they will provide advice and may be willing to take on the claim subject to the values involved (most policies have a clause to say costs must be proportionate to the claim value... no spending £10,000 to try and get £1.50 back)

SGH33

Grumpy_chap said:

SGH33 said:

Yes, I agree with what you are saying now after yours and previous advice.  I think I am just wound up at his lack of ownership to his error and him not responding.
I have written to him in both emails and letters requesting mediation and asking if he is part of any organisation as there is nothing on his website, but he has not responded.
If I was successful in court in claiming the cost of the dress plus cleaning costs and expenses, would I still be able to keep my dress?
Would I be making a mistake if I took it from the shop now?

I had understood this was all being done by a small, local, independent dry-cleaner.  Reference of going to mediation infers dealing with a massive multinational corporate.  Which is it?

SGH33 said:

Plus it wasn't collected for 4 months due to covid. So maybe if it was collected straight away it may not be so bad, is this something a judge may penalise me for?

Where is the dress now?
Most dry cleaners I have used have a sign up, anything not collected within 30 days will be disposed of.

The 4 months delay in collection because of COVID is understood and it would be unreasonable for the dry cleaner to apply the 30 day disposal in those circumstances.  It is just I cannot see that those circumstances are still valid now, February 2022.  First lock-down was end of March 2020, so the four months was up to end of July 2020.  If the dress is still at the dry cleaners a further 18-months on then I suggest the dry cleaner's waste bin is the place to start looking.

When I asked him if his storage of my dress in his shop was the cause of the problem, he showed me several dresses that hadn't been collected for years.
He is an independent dry cleaner. 

SGH33

Sandtree said:

SGH33 said:

So is it wise to take the dress and pay the other dry cleaner to try and retify it?
If they do, I just claim expenses presumably (original dry clean cost and new dry clean cost?)

I'd take it for an opinion but choose wisely, the quality of dry cleaners vary massively and the best one I use refuses to dry clean many things but the item is spot cleaned and comes back looking like it did the day I got it. If they are confident see if they'll only charge if they succeed.


I fear your approach is one of vast optimism of what claimable... the "correct" outcome is that you are in the same position as if covid hadnt happened, you'd gone to the dry cleaners to pick up the dress and it was fine when given to you. If that had happened you'd have had to pay for one dry cleaning. If by paying a second company they do restore it then you cannot claim for both dry cleanings because then you'd be in a better position than if the incident hadnt happened (aka betterment).

If its not repairable, or vastly expensive to repair, then the next option is to restore you to where you were just before you handed the dress over.

PS. it goes without saying that all of this is the response from a random person on a forum and ultimately the decision is yours or you should seek legal advice. If you have Legal Expenses cover on your home insurance they will provide advice and may be willing to take on the claim subject to the values involved (most policies have a clause to say costs must be proportionate to the claim value... no spending £10,000 to try and get £1.50 back)

The dry cleaner I've been in touch with is Used by my dress manufacturer and will regund if they cannot help, so they sound pretty solid.
I've emailed my insurance twice to ask as I do have legal cover, but have not had a response. 
Thankyou for all your help, it has really clarified things 😊

SGH33

bris said:

Throwing everything at it like you are is only going to wind up the judge.

The small claims court is for losses, not all that other nonsense where they simply wont entertain it.

You need to get legal help and go to the county court for the other stuff, that costs a lot of money which personally I believe you are throwing away.

In the small claims court you can have the second hand value of the dress plus cleaning costs and expences. They would expect you to attend mediation beforehand where an offer would probably be made by the cleaners,.Failing to do that or if the judge decides the offer is fair could see you lose expenses. 

Canceling everything is a bit over the top so don't think its easy to pull the wool over the judges eyes.

How would I go about mediation as he is an independent dry cleaner and not attached to any association.
Cancelling may seem over the top, but due to other issues as well as the dress being the main one, it's unfortunately the case. I just thought I could use the cancellation emails as proof. 

MattMattMattUK

SGH33 said:

bris said:

Throwing everything at it like you are is only going to wind up the judge.

The small claims court is for losses, not all that other nonsense where they simply wont entertain it.

You need to get legal help and go to the county court for the other stuff, that costs a lot of money which personally I believe you are throwing away.

In the small claims court you can have the second hand value of the dress plus cleaning costs and expences. They would expect you to attend mediation beforehand where an offer would probably be made by the cleaners,.Failing to do that or if the judge decides the offer is fair could see you lose expenses. 

Canceling everything is a bit over the top so don't think its easy to pull the wool over the judges eyes.

How would I go about mediation as he is an independent dry cleaner and not attached to any association.

Court mediation, part of the claims process if you go down the Small Claims route, personally I would not bother with any of this, you are going to waste a lot of time and potentially a lot of money and the outcome will likely be you get a refund on the dry cleaning, but nothing else.

SGH33 said:

Cancelling may seem over the top, but due to other issues as well as the dress being the main one, it's unfortunately the case. I just thought I could use the cancellation emails as proof. 

The thing is it was your decision and does not, as far as a court is concerned, relate to the issue with the dress. You chose to cancel, you were not forced to, nor did they cancel on you.

born_again

SGH33 said:

I've emailed my insurance twice to ask as I do have legal cover, but have not had a response. 
Thankyou for all your help, it has really clarified things 😊

Don't email. Ring them. 👍