Heating for the future - do I need to start saving now? Heat Pumps?

Swipe

I don't get the heat pump argument. If you need to go to extreme lengths of insulation to make them affordable, why not just do that anyway and instead of buying a heat pump stick with gas and just turn down the flow temp of your boiler?

Ectophile

Swipe said:

I don't get the heat pump argument. If you need to go to extreme lengths of insulation to make them affordable, why not just do that anyway and instead of buying a heat pump stick with gas and just turn down the flow temp of your boiler?

Eventually, the government intends to ban all sales of gas boilers.  But that won't be for quite a few years.

In the meantime, getting ready by installing an efficient heating system with over-sized radiators is a good investment for when we have to switch over to heat pumps.

QrizB

Swipe said:

I don't get the heat pump argument. If you need to go to extreme lengths of insulation to make them affordable, why not just do that anyway and instead of buying a heat pump stick with gas and just turn down the flow temp of your boiler?

The goal is to phase out gas.

Not everybody has mains gas, and other fossil fuels have historically been more expensive (the next six+ months might be an exception).

The carbon intensity of UK grid electricity is already lower than gas, even in the winter months.

Verdigris

Also, there are no TOU tariffs for gas, AFAIK, which will probably become an important factor in keeping costs down, in future. Heat pumps can make for better utilisation of solar panels/batteries, too.

Reed_Richards

Swipe said:

I don't get the heat pump argument. If you need to go to extreme lengths of insulation to make them affordable, why not just do that anyway and instead of buying a heat pump stick with gas and just turn down the flow temp of your boiler?

In April electricity will be about 4 times the cost of gas per kWh.  A heat pump might well use a third of the energy that direct electrical heating would so will be more expensive to run than a gas boiler providing the same amount of heat at those prices.  In neither case is it necessary to go to "extreme lengths of insulation" but the cost benefit of adding insulation is increasing as energy prices increase.

matelodave

Swipe said:

I don't get the heat pump argument. If you need to go to extreme lengths of insulation to make them affordable, why not just do that anyway and instead of buying a heat pump stick with gas and just turn down the flow temp of your boiler?

You dont have to go to extreme lengths for insulation, its just that heatpumps run more efficiently at lower temperatures , which, surprisingly, so do gas or oil boilers.. More insulation means lower running costs both for heatpumps and any other type of heating..

However as leccy is presently 4-5 times the cost of gas and there's no indication that the ratio will change anytime soon it's not unreasonable to maximise the benefit of a heatpump by improving the insulation as well.

When gas and leccy cost the same per kwh then heatpumps will be flying off the shelves because you'll then get a lot more heat for the same amount of money.

TBH the whole heatpump thing isn't to save money, despite what people say, it's to reduce the use of energy produced by fossil fuels, much like electric cars are supposed to.

Unfortunately leccy costs a lot more than gas to produce and isn't so easy to store and isn't as reliable insofar as it depends on sunlight, the wind or waves or heat from another source to produce it. Until they sort that out we'll still be dependant on fossil fuels for a long time to come. (even this morning over 40% of our leccy came from gas, 4% from coal with less than 18% from wind)

ProDave

Yes the main benefit of heat pumps is for people without mains gas, they provide a cheaper means of heating than normal storage or panel heaters.   I would not be in a rush to replace a mains gas boiler with one.

Verdigris

The April SVP puts gas at a quarter of the price of electricity. It is now perfectly possible to achieve a SCOP of 4 with a heat pump employing propane as the refrigerant. This puts a the running cost of a heat pump at parity with mains gas.

shinytop

Swipe said:

I don't get the heat pump argument. If you need to go to extreme lengths of insulation to make them affordable, why not just do that anyway and instead of buying a heat pump stick with gas and just turn down the flow temp of your boiler?

Up till now mains gas was so cheap people didn't bother trying to save energy. They will now.  

I have an ASHP that is affordable and I don't have extreme levels of insulation. 

greenpanda

Thanks for all the replies. Looking at what I'd need to do (new windows, internal insulation to solid walls, underfloor insulation) the cost is likely going to be around £30k if not more. Cam everyone really afford this?!