Do a bit of research before you make snap judgements please!

Migz

Graham_Devon wrote: »

There is a question that I would love to ask some of you. However, you would state I'm abusing you and upsetting you. However, how many would have gone bankrupt 5 years ago under the old scheme, when it had real harsh, and longer effects on your lives?

Or how many would have struggled and continued with the payments?

I have an answer in my mind. I'm not expecting anyone to answer me either.

It's more a 'shool of thought' question than me wanting a response.

I don't think you are abusing me or upsetting me, and I will answer your question, though mine might not be the one you will be looking for. Although I was in trouble 5 years ago I was still struggling to pay my way and did so for quite some time, I did seek advice under the old system, and bankruptcy was suggested then, but and hands up I admit I didn't understand it then like I do now, the word was enough to make me flee and struggle on, and if it wasn't for events that took over and very poor health which means I will never work again, I would have paid what I owed. However, if the events towards my bankruptcy now had transpired 5 or more years ago, even though the consiquences where harsher, I would still have had to do it, my back was againt the wall and there was no choice.

Migz

rog2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

But stating theres no stigma, when frankly there is, and telling everyone not to listen to it, throw abuse at them, call them trolls, idiots, etc etc, does not mean theres no 'other side'.

You state you have not experienced this 'stigma' but you also state you don't post on any other board.

I actually said "Personally, I have found there to be very little stigma attached to bankruptcy."
I did not say that 'there is no stigma', nor did I say that 'I have not experienced this stigma'.
On the occasions that I have experienced 'stigma' it has, almost inevitably, been at the hands of uneducated bigots.
I do not post on other forums simply because I choose not to post on other forums - this does not mean that I do not look at other forums.
Of course I would not expect to be 'welcomed with open arms' if I were to discuss my bankruptcy on a forum for debt-collectors or bailiffs, but I have, as a small businessman, read many business forums where the topic of bankruptcy is discussed openly and non-judgementally.

Peter_Pan

I don't think creditors help though either, I have a choice to either follow OH and go bankrupt or pay what i can off my debts, because of our circumstances it will be some time before our situation improves, when the creditors are aware of the situation but still they keep adding late fees (can't pay full amount each month) and interest charges this just makes looking at bankruptcy more appealing.
I have also offered full and final settlement figures via a relative of over 50% but they are digging their heels in which again makes bankruptcy even more appealing. Whichever way my credit rating is going to be messed up so what have i got to lose?

Graham_Devon

While were all in discussion mode, let me put this to you. Please just read with an open mind.

Someone I know (dad's mate) got a job doing up someones house, making it all lovely. This person agreed the money, the buyer agreed. The person doing the work took a deposit and then carried out the work over the next month.

For the worker, this was his income to feed his children and protect his family, as we all do.

The buyer however, was living a life of extravagencies on credit.

So 3 weeks later, the full deposit spent on meterials for the worker to carry out the job, the buyer says 'I cant pay you'. The debt people say 'dont pay anyone'. The buyer goes bankrupt.

The buyer of course by this point has got all his work done, all his home done bar the last few bits and pieces and tidying up.

The worker is owed for materials, time, and he needs to feed his kids and pay bills.

Buyer walks off having cleared all his debts by going BR.

Worker has to then go get a loan, fight in court (and lost) to feed his kids and wife, pay council tax etc.

2 years later, and he is still paying back that loan bit by bit. Of course, the buyer has their home all nicely sorted. Wasn't his was it, was in his parents name, very clever.

Then I see, 'it hurts no one' continually.

Believe me, it crippled the honest, hard working and trusting family, the man trying to work to feed his wife and children ultimately, lost out and he is still paying for it now. Buyer, after 1 year, is able to move on. Worker, after 2 years, still paying for it.

Broken_hearted

Can you be a bigot with a good education or are you just biased?

Graham_Devon

Rog, I may be a bigot etc etc, I may not, but what I do know is that I have tried to talk to you in a non abusive manner and explain things, ask for your input etc. I'm done with you now, you obviously have no interest in discussing or you just cannot for whatever reason, grasp it.

This very post is about not making snap judgements. I have not made any of you, or anyone else on this post. You just did.

betterlatethannever

You might find this interesting...both BRs and non Brs.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/28418/TV-newsreader-now-lives-on-a-park-Bench

Graham_Devon

betterlatethannever wrote: »

You might find this interesting...both BRs and non Brs.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/28418/TV-newsreader-now-lives-on-a-park-Bench

It is interesting yes, just skim read it.

However, you don't want to know what I think of a bloke earning 100k a year, and instead of living within his means (which would be huge) wracks up 50 grand of debt wich continues to grow to 250k after losing hsi job and then goes bankrupt.

I can see the side that yes he got 50k of debt, lost his job, and then the debt mounted up.

However, I can;t excuse his lack of self respect and plain greediness at having a 100k job (2 grand a week!) and totally and spectacularly screwing it up!

Thousands manage on 12k a year, so he has absolutely no excuse whatsoever, apart from having a totally selfish and greedy attitude towards life.

Migz

Graham, I see exactly what you are saying, I have been on both sides of this fence, I worked for someone years back who went bankrupt, we turned up for work one monday morning and was told go home, and we never ended up getting paid either, so I know this harms both sides of the scales. For every action there is the equal and oppersite reaction somewhere and all that jazz, but it is how the world works unfortunately, and people get hurt and left in the poo through no fault of their own, and yes it is very hard.
And I agree too with BrokenHearted that the laws perhaps do need changing in many different ways, what I have found most surpriingly out of this whole experence, is in the booklet thats comes from the court that tells you what you can and can't do, it states that after you have gone bankrupt you are not alowed to get more than £500 credit... astounding, I think this made more of a mockery out of what I have just been though than anything, and like you say in a years time, if I so choose to I can go get credit here and there and if I was a person who didn't care and hardn't learnt a very hard lesson, could do what I pleased, and I feel that is wrong, again it goes back to what I said in an earlier post, credit should be harder to obtain in the first place.

Migz

betterlatethannever

I agree Graham, even the mnighty though can fall and be unprepared for the future.
He is an extreme example though of someone who was ill prepared for life throwing poo at you.
But regardless of the amount, if you can't pay it then it could be 5 million or £5000.
One of the better parts of the paper article though, is where he speaks about how emotional it all was, how he couldn't sleep etc, and what a relief BR was, even though its meant him living on £53 per week and sleeping on a bench.
For me the biggest aspect of BR was the emotional one. I have received nothing but help and support from those around me, the only person thats beaten me up about this whole thing is ME.
I know the whole huggy/kissy things been critised but emotions are high here, probably more so than anywhere else.
I do agree though that those that come on here asking for help in hiding their property/cars etc and those saying they have to have this, that and the other must be annoying to those who struggle, Br or not.