Proof of funds for gifted stamp duty money?

Snookie12cat

user1977 said:

Snookie12cat said:

Slithery said:

Snookie12cat said:

You can ask to file and pay the stamp duty yourself so it doesn't need to go through them

Not if you need a mortgage.

Not true according to the stamp duty department, and the mortgage lender. Just another thing solicitors tell you, which doesn't seem to ring true.

HMRC won't care about how the returns get submitted and paid, as long as somebody does, and it seems likely you spoke to somebody at the lender who doesn't know what their solicitor instructions actually say. This is from the UK Lenders Handbook, which is the standard set of instructions almost all lenders use:

"10.4 You are only authorised to release the loan when you hold sufficient funds to complete the purchase of the property and pay all stamp duty land tax and registration fees to perfect the security as a first legal mortgage or, if you do not have them, you accept responsibility to pay them yourself.

10.5 Before releasing the loan when the borrower is purchasing the property you must either hold a properly completed and executed stamp duty land tax form or you must hold an appropriate authority from the borrower allowing you to file the necessary stamp duty land tax return(s) on completion."

So before completion can happen, the solicitor must be in a position to submit the SDLT return and pay any duty.

This explains why the solicitor is the only one out of all concerned parties who care and why my solicitor refused.

I am just paying the £60 and moving on with gifted stamp duty but £180+vat seems extortion.

Snookie12cat

grumiofoundation said:

Snookie12cat said:

Slithery said:

Snookie12cat said:

You can ask to file and pay the stamp duty yourself so it doesn't need to go through them

Not if you need a mortgage.

Not true according to the stamp duty department, and the mortgage lender. Just another thing solicitors tell you, which doesn't seem to ring true.

Which mortgage lender told you this - or are you saying all mortgage lenders? As posted above by User1977 this doesn't appear to be correct based on actual documents. Where did you get this information from?

I asked YBS and nationwide. Obviously not all but these had no issues at all saying that it's your tax bill and they do not care if/how it gets paid. The actual underwriters said this 🤷🏼‍♀️

user1977

Snookie12cat said:

grumiofoundation said:

Snookie12cat said:

Slithery said:

Snookie12cat said:

You can ask to file and pay the stamp duty yourself so it doesn't need to go through them

Not if you need a mortgage.

Not true according to the stamp duty department, and the mortgage lender. Just another thing solicitors tell you, which doesn't seem to ring true.

Which mortgage lender told you this - or are you saying all mortgage lenders? As posted above by User1977 this doesn't appear to be correct based on actual documents. Where did you get this information from?

I asked YBS and nationwide. Obviously not all but these had no issues at all saying that it's your tax bill and they do not care if/how it gets paid. The actual underwriters said this 🤷🏼‍♀️

Lenders are large organisations - I wouldn't expect the underwriters to know the detail of what their legal department asks your solicitor to do. But if you explained to them that without an SDLT return for your purchase, the lender can't register their charge over the property, they'd probably understand it a bit more and not trust you to deal with it.

ce5656

Snookie12cat said:

user1977 said:

Snookie12cat said:

Slithery said:

Snookie12cat said:

You can ask to file and pay the stamp duty yourself so it doesn't need to go through them

Not if you need a mortgage.

Not true according to the stamp duty department, and the mortgage lender. Just another thing solicitors tell you, which doesn't seem to ring true.

HMRC won't care about how the returns get submitted and paid, as long as somebody does, and it seems likely you spoke to somebody at the lender who doesn't know what their solicitor instructions actually say. This is from the UK Lenders Handbook, which is the standard set of instructions almost all lenders use:

"10.4 You are only authorised to release the loan when you hold sufficient funds to complete the purchase of the property and pay all stamp duty land tax and registration fees to perfect the security as a first legal mortgage or, if you do not have them, you accept responsibility to pay them yourself.

10.5 Before releasing the loan when the borrower is purchasing the property you must either hold a properly completed and executed stamp duty land tax form or you must hold an appropriate authority from the borrower allowing you to file the necessary stamp duty land tax return(s) on completion."

So before completion can happen, the solicitor must be in a position to submit the SDLT return and pay any duty.

This explains why the solicitor is the only one out of all concerned parties who care and why my solicitor refused.

I am just paying the £60 and moving on with gifted stamp duty but £180+vat seems extortion.

My lender doesn’t seem to care. Apparently according to my third solicitor, the first solicitor actually wrote to my lender to say that my deposit contains a gift but the bank never replied. She then said that she’ll write to the bank to cancel this. During my entire mortgage interview, stamp duty was never mentioned.

Sandtree

aoleks said:

The deposit needs a letter, any other costs are your own business. If you want to pay your stamp duty by taking out cash from a credit card, then so be it.

Your solicitor is being excessive…

Surely the lender will want to know if this newly arrived sum of money is a gift or an undocumented loan simply from an affordability perspective? 

The "gift" could be for something totally unrelated to the house purchase but if its actually a loan to be repaid at £300 per month then that may make the mortgage unaffordable

Sandtree

ce5656 said:

Snookie12cat said:

user1977 said:

Snookie12cat said:

Slithery said:

Snookie12cat said:

You can ask to file and pay the stamp duty yourself so it doesn't need to go through them

Not if you need a mortgage.

Not true according to the stamp duty department, and the mortgage lender. Just another thing solicitors tell you, which doesn't seem to ring true.

HMRC won't care about how the returns get submitted and paid, as long as somebody does, and it seems likely you spoke to somebody at the lender who doesn't know what their solicitor instructions actually say. This is from the UK Lenders Handbook, which is the standard set of instructions almost all lenders use:

"10.4 You are only authorised to release the loan when you hold sufficient funds to complete the purchase of the property and pay all stamp duty land tax and registration fees to perfect the security as a first legal mortgage or, if you do not have them, you accept responsibility to pay them yourself.

10.5 Before releasing the loan when the borrower is purchasing the property you must either hold a properly completed and executed stamp duty land tax form or you must hold an appropriate authority from the borrower allowing you to file the necessary stamp duty land tax return(s) on completion."

So before completion can happen, the solicitor must be in a position to submit the SDLT return and pay any duty.

This explains why the solicitor is the only one out of all concerned parties who care and why my solicitor refused.

I am just paying the £60 and moving on with gifted stamp duty but £180+vat seems extortion.

My lender doesn’t seem to care. Apparently according to my third solicitor, the first solicitor actually wrote to my lender to say that my deposit contains a gift but the bank never replied. 

A bank not replying shouldnt be taken as a sign of the bank not caring... its more commonly a sign that the letter didnt get to where it should have.

user1977

Sandtree said:

aoleks said:

The deposit needs a letter, any other costs are your own business. If you want to pay your stamp duty by taking out cash from a credit card, then so be it.

Your solicitor is being excessive…

Surely the lender will want to know if this newly arrived sum of money is a gift or an undocumented loan simply from an affordability perspective? 

They may well do, but I'd expect that to be part of the mortgage application. Solicitors aren't normally instructed to look at the wider aspects of affordability or personal loans by the borrower (other than where those funds form part of the price).

newsgroupmonkey_

What a load of cobblers.

Why would the solicitors worry where the Stamp Duty comes from? They're basically working on behalf of the bank ensuring your deposit is not laundered.

There's nothing to stop you (and indeed people do) charge it to a credit card. The bank won't care.

My solicitors didn't once ask us where our stamp duty came from - indeed, I cashed in a load of work shares to cover it and it was never mentioned.

There is far too much butt covering going on at that solicitors.

ce5656

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

What a load of cobblers.

Why would the solicitors worry where the Stamp Duty comes from? They're basically working on behalf of the bank ensuring your deposit is not laundered.

There's nothing to stop you (and indeed people do) charge it to a credit card. The bank won't care.

My solicitors didn't once ask us where our stamp duty came from - indeed, I cashed in a load of work shares to cover it and it was never mentioned.

There is far too much butt covering going on at that solicitors.

I emailed the third solicitor on Monday to question her on this and also to inform her what the second solicitor said to me previously. It’s now Friday and she hasn’t replied. She did send some other documents over during the week but nothing on this particular point. 

I know this whole AML thing doesn’t have any hard and fast rules, but I expect three solicitors from the same firm to have the same standards.

TBG01

My solicitors didn't once ask us where our stamp duty came from.

Solicitors never ask where the SDLT comes, because as already mentioned you can't separate funds.  

indeed, I cashed in a load of work shares to cover it and it was never mentioned.

Cashing shares, which would be in your name, is completely different to a third party gifting money towards a purchase.

There is far too much butt covering going on at that solicitors

Say for example the OP and his Mother fall out. She now wants that gift back. 

Do you think the OP would rather a signed document from his Mother confirming that the gift was unconditional, which would put it straight to bed, or do you think he'd rather go down a lengthy legal process?